MTFCA Forum

Hi
What do you think of this glue?
In my case, a piece of the gearbox cover broke off.
where the wave goes in from the pedal.
I think the parts are too small to weld, so the question is cast steel or cast iron





and one more question! is the oil ok for the engine / gearbox?





greetz pat

I'm sure other will respond to J-B Weld too. Your problem is a clean surface for anything to adhere to. JD-Weld is used by many T owners to repair cracks etc. But rather than trying to glue the small pieces back on - you might just fill the gap with JB (careful no to glue the shaft)

As for the oil 20 Liters = 21 quarts so.....
API-SG oil was a formulation used in 1988 -1993. According to this it would be usable in cars prior to that yer but not later. The "S" designates for use with spark engines A "C" would be for compression engines) http://www.pqiamerica.com/devilsindisguise.htm
JASO MA/MA2 a specification for Motorcycles using the same oil lubricating the engine and the wet clutch. Interesting spec!
https://www.oilspecifications.org/artic ... ASO_MB.php
There are a lot of opinions on oil viscosity and detergent versus non-detergent motor oil. Viscosity choice should be based on the climate/season that the car is to be driven in. Multi-grade oils are a good choice for temperature ranges while a mono-grade would be better where the temperature range varies very little. Based on the amount of use of my car (low mileage); climate (all 4 seasons) the most practical choice is multi-grade.
Non-detergent oils were intended for engines without oil filters. They would cause the contaminated oil to stick to the engine walls and valleys to prevent the dirty oil form damaging bearings etc.. Detergent oils contain additives to keep the contaminates in suspension so the can be filtered out through an oil filter. There are many arguments for using one or the other - either way you need to first drop the inspection pan in the engine and remove and slug build-up before you add your choice. Because the engine has no oil filter it is necessary to check your oil for cleanliness, and change or drop the inspection pan as required.
Lastly as is often mentioned in discussions about engine oil - if you use (or have) a magneto you should never use an oil containing graphite (most do not)
4-TAKT AGRO SAE 30 API SG
Corresponds with requirements / specifications / products:
TYPE 4-Stroke Engine Oil, SAE 30, API SG, JASO MA/MA2, Detergent Oil
http://sct.autodevel.com/en/?action=acc ... 20SAE%2030

Thank you first for the great answer.
So I have the right oil, thanks.

And about the glue, I see
prefer to do it completely with the glue like puzzling all parts together.
Is there a material where the glue doesn't stick?
then I could turn a shaft out of it and insert it into the hole and when the glue has hardened simply pull it out again.

Patrick,

JB Weld is an epoxy type product. It will NOT stick to any type of hydrocarbon (OIL, Grease, or the like). I recommend the piece be welded back into place. The part is large enough to be TIG welded or brazed back into place.

You must think about how/why it broke in the first place. Was it an accident OR due to something that happened while driving? If it broke during normal operations, there had to be a good amount of pressure placed on it. IF you use an epoxy type glue, will that glue be strong enough to endure the same pressure being placed on it again?

YES, welding will be more expensive BUT it will be "more" permanent than an epoxy glue job. The choice has to be yours and I respect your choice. AND yes, I am completely familiar with JB Weld products. I have used them often in the past. They are very good products for which they were designed and if used as recommended. I am also aware that the piece is cast iron. Cast iron can not be welded in the same manner as a standard steel. A good welder will be able to make the weld/braze properly.

Good Luck,
Terry

Greetz, Pat..

As to the JB weld... It would be best to remove the shaft... But I think this one is difficult, as the cam is inside, and you must get it's pin out... Then back in again, after the repair. That would be hard on the new repair.

I think any kind of tape you could put over the shaft would work. Painters tape, electrical tape, etc. You could even wrap a piece of paper around the shaft. Then spear a bit of oil on the tape or paper.

I might even suggest putting several wraps of safety wire around your repair, to give it some extra support.

Do you know how it broke? Looks like something that could happen when trying to remove the cam on the inside portion of the shaft.

See us,
Dennis

I have to add, that I agree with Terry... He apparently responded while I did mine.

I agree that brazing would be the better way to go.... It should not be too difficult for a good welder. Yes... It is cast iron, not steel. It should not be very expensive, as I believe you still have the hog's head (transmission cover) off the transmission.

See us,

Dennis

For the repair, I would remove the shaft, bevel the cracked surfaces, leaving just a mm or two touching near the edge at the shaft hole and braze it. The hole will likely need to be reamed after the repair. Check for a bent shaft while it's apart. Good luck, jb

With all that work why not just get a new hogs head?

He's in Germany. I am not sure how plentiful or inexpensive they are there.

Since the parts are not in a bind or stress or in other words just sitting there using JB Weld might work for a while.
BUT the parts have to be really clean! Use lacquer thinner, gas or somthing to get the pieces CLEAN!
Carefully use the JB weld to repair the two pieces. After they have set and and stuck together pretty well then use
JB weld to attach the one piece to the cover. But again it has to be really clean!
Try that and see what happens. It might work for a while. Won’t cost much to try.
If it’s not successful the next best way would to carefully braze it as others have suggested.

If you coat the outside of the repair all around the area with the JB weld that’s been repaired after it’s in place the extra layer ofJB weld will help it stay in place. Forgot to add that to my post.

One thing to consider: If using JB Weld, and it does not work, will you lose the piece(s) while driving?

Wouldn’t look to good but you could put a small water hose clamp around it to help hold it together! There is room for it to clear and it would work but would look patched up. Some would not like that.
That’s what’s called a farm fix but would work till a better transmission cover is found.

There are two types of JB Weld Epoxy: The two part grey epoxy putty that all of us are familiar with, and the two part clear epoxy glue that comes in a twin tube syringe. Though I could not see the pictures, I believe the original question was referring to the 2 part clear epoxy syringe glue. When choosing clear, 2 part epoxy glue, always read the package. All of these clear epoxy glues have the strength in lbs. on the package. Of course, if you have a choice between 1,500 lb strength and 4,000 lbs., it is a no brainer that you choose the 4,000 Lb. strength.

It is very difficult, if not impossible to permanently repair broken cast iron auto engine parts that have been impregnated with oil for nearly 100 years. Though cast iron looks solid, it is very porous and the oil it has absorbed over the years is virtually impossible to remove, so if you have success in initially repairing the break with epoxy, the repair will be temporary for, no matter how well you clean it, as soon as the piece gets hot, the oil that remains deep in the pores will work its’ way up to the surface and cause the epoxy to release and, if it releases when driving, you may lose the piece if it falls out on the street.

The only way to successfully repair cast iron is to braze or weld the pieces together (if not too small) or, if it is too small, build it up with brazing and grind it down into shape. Note: It is very tricky to weld or braze cast iron and it should be done by a very experienced welder, or you may destroy the piece in the attempt. Jim Patrick

Hey
Thank you very much for the many answers and tips first.

I only came across the JB Weld adhesive because an experienced professional welder who also repairs model T's advised me to do so.
Then I thought if he said that it would be for the best.
But I always think welding is better than sticking.
i am a fitter myself so i am familiar with welding and soldering.
Would you then use silver solder or brass solder? You don't have to make silver solder so hot.
it would be worth a try. mfg pat

I see
the reason for this is i wanted to exchange the cams, but this pin was so tight that i only got the part out with heat and a big hammer.
need a new wave anyway.

I think brass would be stronger.

Brass solder, definitely. jb

Nickel alloy welding rod.