Ford tire pump: Check valve?

[Steve Jelf]

This morning in one of the Facebook Model T groups somebody asked if he should carry a spare tire. Surprisingly this led to a lot of back and forth about whether it's necessary or not. I certainly do, or at least a spare tube, and the requisite equipment for dealing with a flat. And that got me to thinking about air sources. For a few years I carried a foot pump, and had occasion to use it twice. The first time I used it I blew up a tire to 65 psi with no trouble. The second time it wouldn't go past forty pounds. Luckily a chap who was passing by and saw my dilemma went to his place nearby and brought a tank of air. So with the foot pump a washout, I've decided to carry one of those pumps that screw into a spark plug hole. But with mechanical devices being subject to failure, I think a backup would be wise.

So this afternoon I investigated the few old-time tire pumps I have hanging in my shop. Two of them are marked Ford and one is an unidentified double-tube affair that will require more fixing than the others.

The steel-tube Ford pump has a very faint T-1484 on the bottom, so apparently it's real. The brass-tube Ford pump has no markings I can detect on the bottom, and the hose is marked Made in Germany. I assume it's a repop. But it's in the best condition of the three and I'll use it if I can make it work. That brings me to the question. Is a Ford pump supposed have a check valve, or does it rely on the valve in the tire stem? I'm guessing it's the latter, but I'd like to know for sure.

[Susanne]

It's a round ball in the base of the pump just below the hose that seats there, and is "trapped" by staking into it's "cage". The schrader valve wouldn't work as a check valve as you have the hose involved, as well as the schrader valve being held open by the nozzle, without the check valve you don't pump air. What it does is fill the pump cylinder from the tire.

[CudaMan]

If your check valve ball is missing or non functional, the vendors sell a check valve assembly that screws onto the end of the pump hose.

https://www.modeltford.com/item/2338CV.aspx

[Steve Jelf]

The Schrader valve wouldn't work as a check valve as you have the hose involved, as well as the Schrader valve being held open by the nozzle...

I believe the old pumps that relied on the stem valve had a nozzle that didn't hold the valve open.

This nozzle has nothing to hold the stem valve open. I figure it must have been intended for a pump without a check valve.

Both original and reproduction tire pumps do not have a check valve built into them, making them difficult to use.

...says the Lang's page in Mark's link. My guess is that the correct phrase would be impossible to use because they have a modern nozzle that holds the stem valve open.

[JunkyJud]

The Ford pumps did not come with a check valve (as is stated in the Lang's check valve link above). Any check valves, at least in the brass pumps, were after market. The difference in the valve stem coupler would be the little piece of metal in the middle of the coupler that would work in conjunction with the check valve. The original Ford coupler had no center piece and, therefore, would not depress the valve stem requiring the tire pump pressure to unseat the valve allowing air into the tube. The pictured coupler without the center piece is original to the Ford brass pumps.

[Steve Jelf]

The original Ford coupler had no center piece and, therefore, would not depress the valve stem requiring the tire pump pressure to unseat the valve allowing air into the tube.

As I suspected. I'll remove the center piece and see how well things go when you use only the stem valve.

[Mark Gregush]

I tried that and all that happened was the handle came back up and that was with an empty tube. Reading this leads me to think the springs may have been different, a little weaker then the ones we have now. My pump had a new leather so maybe not a pump issue. You pump would at some point have to overcome the pressure in the tire, so it would need some good output.

[CudaMan]

Mark me down as skeptical that the pump will work without the fitting that depresses the Schrader valve core. Let us know how it goes.

[Steve Jelf]

Oh, ye of little faith...

It works.

I hooked up the better of my two Ford pumps to a low tire and went to work. Being of the elderly persuasion I found the exertion challenging enough to take occasional breaks during the job. I started with the pressure at 5 psi and blew it up to 72 psi (had to let out a little air at the end).

The secret is removing the center post from the modern connector so the check valve is the one in the valve stem. There's no need to blow $33.50 plus shipping for an external check valve. The one in the stem does the job.

I believe the brass pump is a very good reproduction except for the modern coupler that made it useless.

The base is slightly thicker and rougher than the one on a real Ford pump, and has no markings on the bottom. The hose is marked Made in Germany (not West Germany), so I'm guessing it was made in 1989 or later.

The ball bearing check valve theory is bogus. A ball will not seat in the air passage. Lang's catalogue is correct about Ford pumps not having a built-in check valve.

[Susanne]

Pretty cool... learn something new every day!

[CudaMan]

I stand corrected, thanks Steve!

[Mark Gregush]

Maybe not in the brass cylinder one, but my Ford steel cylinder has a check valve in the base.

[Steve Jelf]

Maybe not in the brass cylinder one, but my Ford steel cylinder has a check valve in the base.

Is it marked T-1484? A-1484? My other ford pump is steel and has what looks like T-1484 on the bottom, though it's pretty faint. It has no check valve. I'll have to clean it up and see if a ball will seat.

[YellowTRacer]

Thanks Steve, as Susanne stated, learn something every day. After all these years maybe now I can use my old Ford tire pump with no check valve, knowing that it should work..

Ed aka #4

[Mark Gregush]

Mine is the first number T-1484.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/358630.html