13T - Kingston to Holley NH

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
Darin Hull
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:15 pm
First Name: Darin
Last Name: Hull
Location: Cartersville, GA
MTFCA Number: 29699
MTFCI Number: 25147
Board Member Since: 2010

13T - Kingston to Holley NH

Post by Darin Hull » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:01 am

I have been running a Kingston carb (L4?) on the 13T. Over the last year, I’ve read numerous threads about T carbs and decided I wanted to purchase a new model carb and keep the Kingston in reserve as a backup/spare. Though there’s always debate and disagreement... there seemed to be a consensus some carbs were simply better performers. Though a Strom OF had my attention, I decided to contact Russ Potter and order a Holley NH swayback.

This week I received the Holley NH from Russ and I give him my appreciation for his workmanship/knowledge. I installed the Holley NH today and was actually shocked at the difference in the 13T’s performance. I know the mind can play tricks and perceive a difference in something, like performance, when there is actually little difference. Well, bring out the stack of bibles... because it was an obvious difference and I’ll swear to it!

I followed this link to adjust the Holley NH carb after installation:

http://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/holley.pdf

The carb started up easier than I expected having not dialed in the adjustments yet. It had a smooth idle and it took little time to adjust it following the MTFCA instructions. The difference between the Kingston and the Holley NH was immediately apparent upon opening up the throttle. The carb’s impact on acceleration and its throttle response were outstanding.

I’ve read in past forums where Russ dynoed different carbs on the same T engine on the same day. I haven’t run across those findings. I have found some material about cfm ratings on various carbs and the debates as to what the results mean. I also understand the Kingston was only cleaned/serviced by me versus the Holley NH being newly rebuilt by an expert. However, through obviously anecdotal evidence... I’m a believer in the ol’ Holley NH!

Anyone have a link to Russ Potter’s dyno testing or some good articles on carb performance?
Darin
Attachments
1FDFCE87-1CB3-48CA-AD7D-3B96C5F2F8DA.jpeg
101E4CF5-78E7-45AC-B87C-654289D76FDA.jpeg
Last edited by Darin Hull on Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:49 am, edited 2 times in total.


Topic author
Darin Hull
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:15 pm
First Name: Darin
Last Name: Hull
Location: Cartersville, GA
MTFCA Number: 29699
MTFCI Number: 25147
Board Member Since: 2010

Re: 13T - Kingston to Holley NH

Post by Darin Hull » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:06 am

I also don’t know what I don’t know... but always pursuing knowledge and learning. Please let me know if there’s any comments or concerns when looking at the pic of the installed carb setup.

Thank you,
Darin


Its_Always_T_Time
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue May 19, 2020 5:25 pm
First Name: Brendan
Last Name: Patterson
Location: City Island, Bronx, NY
MTFCA Number: 51106
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: 13T - Kingston to Holley NH

Post by Its_Always_T_Time » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:58 am

I guess you have no starter since there is no choke to the dashboard!

Cranking her up off of magneto I take it? :D
The Little Ford Will Ramble Right Along!
22 Touring


Topic author
Darin Hull
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:15 pm
First Name: Darin
Last Name: Hull
Location: Cartersville, GA
MTFCA Number: 29699
MTFCI Number: 25147
Board Member Since: 2010

Re: 13T - Kingston to Holley NH

Post by Darin Hull » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:44 am

The 13T has no starter and runs with a 25 engine right now. The original engine is in my garage waiting for some attention.

I crank start and run off a 6v battery as my magneto works but it results in a rough running engine. The mag will be a future project to work on.

Darin


Original Smith
Posts: 1668
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Smith
Location: Lomita, California
MTFCA Number: 121
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16310

Re: 13T - Kingston to Holley NH

Post by Original Smith » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:15 am

I don't understand why you would want to use a 26-7 carburetor on a '13? Why not change the spray needle?


Topic author
Darin Hull
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:15 pm
First Name: Darin
Last Name: Hull
Location: Cartersville, GA
MTFCA Number: 29699
MTFCI Number: 25147
Board Member Since: 2010

Re: 13T - Kingston to Holley NH

Post by Darin Hull » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:35 pm

Larry,

Almost everything I’ve done on the 13T has been getting it closer to original in a series of baby steps. However, I guess in my mind if I do something which is a deviation from that process... I would hope it’s a choice which someone who owned the 13T back in the day may have reasonably made to improve their T.

The 13T already has a 1925 engine in it due to the original engine being out of commission. I would think if someone of that era replaced the engine, it wouldn’t have been an unreasonable choice for that person to put a similar later model carb on it to improve the performance. Just as, apparently, hundreds of thousands of people purchased Strom OF carbs back in the day to improve their Ts performance.

One day, I plan on rebuilding the 13 original engine. I might possibly keep the Holley NH on it; however, I could see taking another baby step and putting on a carb which would’ve went with that engine. Would a Holley G be such a carb?

I know there’s always great debates between the folks who want to keep their T purely original and those who implement more modern upgrades to enhance the performance of their T. I feel more akin to the originalists’ perspective; however, purchasing a Holley NH didn’t feel like such a radical deviation in my circumstances.

Darin


Adam
Posts: 720
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:57 am
First Name: Adam
Last Name: Doleshal
Location: Wisconsin
MTFCA Number: 23809
MTFCI Number: 1
Board Member Since: 2000

Re: 13T - Kingston to Holley NH

Post by Adam » Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:43 pm

Original Smith wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:15 am
I don't understand why you would want to use a 26-7 carburetor on a '13? Why not change the spray needle?
Because the casting is different...


nsbrassnut
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:30 pm
First Name: Jeff
Last Name: Lee
Location: Nova Scotia

Re: 13T - Kingston to Holley NH

Post by nsbrassnut » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:45 pm

Hi Darin

I remember reading the test article on the various T carburetors a few years ago, but I don't have a copy of the article (but wish I did),

I do remember that the early Kingston carburetors with the dashpots all tested at the bottom of the ranking and were the poorest performing ones. The top factory carbs were the sway back NH followed by straight through NH and then the Holly G.

I rebuilt a correct Holley G for my '15 and it starts easy and runs well. So far no complaints with it at all. I have yet to try an NH some day for a comparison.

I did rebuild a '15 Kingston carb, and when tried it out I couldn't even get the engine to start (that was before it was restored later), where a cleaned up un-restored Holley G started and ran fine on the un-restored and worn engine. So my various Kingston carbs are all going to be display items on the shelf.

Try a G sometime, you may be surprised by it too.

Drive Safe
Jeff
Nova Scotia

User avatar

Mark Gregush
Posts: 2586
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 1:57 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Gregush
Location: Portland Or
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: 13T - Kingston to Holley NH

Post by Mark Gregush » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:27 pm

Adam wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:43 pm
Original Smith wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:15 am
I don't understand why you would want to use a 26-7 carburetor on a '13? Why not change the spray needle?
Because the casting is different...
And as has been pointed out to me several times when I said the same thing, their not. Apparently they all have thread in them for the other type spray needle.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1921 Huckster
1925 Cut down pickup


Original Smith
Posts: 1668
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Smith
Location: Lomita, California
MTFCA Number: 121
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16310

Re: 13T - Kingston to Holley NH

Post by Original Smith » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:08 am

You can use the 25-27 NH carburetor on your '13! I do. Just change to the earlier spray needle and 6208 clamp nut. That way you can use your original carburetor adjusting rod.


Topic author
Darin Hull
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:15 pm
First Name: Darin
Last Name: Hull
Location: Cartersville, GA
MTFCA Number: 29699
MTFCI Number: 25147
Board Member Since: 2010

Re: 13T - Kingston to Holley NH

Post by Darin Hull » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:53 pm

Larry, yeah I think that’s a reasonable future project. Spray needle 6213 and clamp but 6208 would be all I need, right?

Darin

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 3049
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: 13T - Kingston to Holley NH

Post by Steve Jelf » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:56 pm

Of course if you want to be correct for 1913 you need the Holley S or the Kingston Y. I've never used either, so I can't testify for or against either one.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


James_Lyons-WV
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:30 am
First Name: James
Last Name: Lyons
Location: West Virginia

Re: 13T - Kingston to Holley NH

Post by James_Lyons-WV » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:31 pm

If you want to take the car to the next power level, yank that NH off and put an early brass G on it. On my 13, I've run the early S, the NH, a Kingston, and a brass G. I don't care what a dyno says. mountain driving here in West Virginia is the true test...and both my 13 and 15 touring cars will pull these mountains in high gear when all those other carburetors required that I go into low. Find yourself a Brass G. You'll have the extra added bonus that if your 13 is a late production, it's a possibility it came with a G anyway.


Topic author
Darin Hull
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:15 pm
First Name: Darin
Last Name: Hull
Location: Cartersville, GA
MTFCA Number: 29699
MTFCI Number: 25147
Board Member Since: 2010

Re: 13T - Kingston to Holley NH

Post by Darin Hull » Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:28 pm

It’s a 251,xxx so April 1913, I believe.

Darin


StanHowe
Posts: 748
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:42 pm
First Name: Stan
Last Name: Howe
Location: Helena, MT
MTFCA Number: 19133
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: 13T - Kingston to Holley NH

Post by StanHowe » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:12 am

James is right. The G is the best all around Ford supplied carburetor -- I don't care what the experts say.
Big bowl for plenty of reserve going up a hill. Starts easily, runs great, idles fine and if you want really great idle it is easy to modify it to make an adjustable idle control.

Ford didn't quit using them because Kingston was better, he quit because they were expensive. They are large, took a lot of brass and a lot of machining. There are enough parts that it took at least semi skilled labor to assemble them.
But they run so nice.
No Ford supplied carb runs better.


J1MGOLDEN
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:39 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Golden
Location: Bowie, MD
MTFCA Number: 14294
MTFCI Number: 13562

Re: 13T - Kingston to Holley NH

Post by J1MGOLDEN » Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:08 pm

I just bought a Holly NH Full Bore from Russ that looks like a brand New Old Stock right out of the box.

I just wanted a spare as they were getting rare, but the one I bought from Russ a few years ago still works great.


Topic author
Darin Hull
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:15 pm
First Name: Darin
Last Name: Hull
Location: Cartersville, GA
MTFCA Number: 29699
MTFCI Number: 25147
Board Member Since: 2010

Re: 13T - Kingston to Holley NH

Post by Darin Hull » Sun Oct 25, 2020 7:38 pm

I just found three carbs in a box I didn’t even know I had. Potential future candidates for rebuilding.

Darin
Attachments
2E2B6213-B761-4DE3-9B25-62FC430EE7B4.jpeg

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic