HP At A Minimal Cost

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Tim Rogers
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HP At A Minimal Cost

Post by Tim Rogers » Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:43 pm

For the guys with Horse Power experience:

I have been collecting parts for an economical engine build with increased HP and here is what I'm thinking...

* weld-on crankshaft counter weights
* model A manifolds
* aluminum domed pistons
* external magneto
* entire assembly balanced

Am I wrong?
<o><o><o><o> Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks - Forum member since 2013 <o><o><o><o>


Dan Hatch
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Re: HP At A Minimal Cost

Post by Dan Hatch » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:14 pm

Save yourself some money, buy a Scat. Then tape a quarter to the counterweights and toss them. That way when someone finds them, he will have a quarter.
Also, look for a B manifold. They have a 45 deg bend instead of a 90.
Good luck. Dan


Art Wilson
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Re: HP At A Minimal Cost

Post by Art Wilson » Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:24 pm

For minimal cost versus driving improvement, I would recommend the following:

1. Increase the compression ratio with a high compression head. This will give the biggest horsepower gain alone, above all other additions, and it is easy to add.

2. Add dippers and X-groove the connecting rods to get better lubrication for the added loads they will experience with any added horsepower.

3. Although not cheap but worth the cost, I would add a Ruckstell rear end. It makes the car fun to drive, especially in traffic and on hills.

4. Balancing the flywheel assembly is highly recommended for reducing strain on the engine and passengers. That will take care of the biggest contributor to unbalance. If possible, the flywheel should be balanced while attached to the crankshaft.

Hope this helps,
Art


ModelTWoods
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Re: HP At A Minimal Cost

Post by ModelTWoods » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:25 pm

Dan Hatch wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:14 pm
Save yourself some money, buy a Scat. Then tape a quarter to the counterweights and toss them. That way when someone finds them, he will have a quarter.
Also, look for a B manifold. They have a 45 deg bend instead of a 90.
Good luck. Dan
Dan, the key words in Tim's post were "at a minimum cost". Not everyone has the money to shell out for a Scat. If they did, you could throw the words, "at a minimum cost" out the window. Even T guru, Hank Lee, has used Dunn bolt on counterweights in at least one of his engines, if not more.

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Tim Rogers
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Re: HP At A Minimal Cost

Post by Tim Rogers » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:45 pm

Thanks everyone.

High compression head vs. high compression pistons? Keep in mind the engine is out of the car and completely disassembled.
<o><o><o><o> Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks - Forum member since 2013 <o><o><o><o>

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walber
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Re: HP At A Minimal Cost

Post by walber » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:02 pm

Stock configuration pistons let you easily select any high compression head that suits your fancy. And of course, if you want to return to a stock motor, change the head and you're done. Lot's of flexibility for a flathead.

Domed pistons limit you to running a stock head and while the compression ratio may approximate what you could get on a high compression flathead, you don't gain any of the potential advantages of combustion chamber design in the high compression heads. Going back to stock would require changing pistons as well.

I used domed pistons in my speedster that has a Fronty to bump my compression but if I wanted to run a flathead, I'd go with stock pistons and probably a Prus head (and cam and carb upgrades).


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Re: HP At A Minimal Cost

Post by Norman Kling » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:26 pm

If you use a standard crankshaft and you increase the power, you also increase the possibility of joining the 2 piece crankshaft club. If that happens, it will be more expensive than buying a SCAT crankshaft now. You can also get a SCAT crankshaft with a longer stroke and with the proper pistons and a high compression head will gain much power. You also need to keep in mind that you only have 2 wheel brakes and even if you use disk brakes, you will get no more stopping power than you would by locking the wheels with whatever brakes you have. Also if you want to install front wheel brakes, you will need to beef up the front suspension so you don't change the castor when you apply the brakes.
After saying all the above, remember it is a Model T and everything is made by Henry to be as inexpensive as possible to be able to sell the cars for a low price. Hence, the drive train is also made for the standard Ford horsepower.
If it were mine, I might get a higher compression head, but still do now try to break any speed records. If you want a more powerful car, I would suggest you buy a Model A or early V8 both of which had a stronger drive train and better brakes to handle the increased speed.
Anyway, it is your car and your decision to make.


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Re: HP At A Minimal Cost

Post by Jim Eubanks » Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:33 pm

Z head, alum pistons and not the HC pistons, 280 cam. The Z head is better than the HC pistons because it provides a better combustion area. Alum pistons decrease the spinning weight and IMHO are better made than the old cast iron pistons with those big rings. You also could read up on increasing the valve size and some slight hogging our of the intake. As it stands, the performance of a T engine is governed by its ability to breathe.


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Re: HP At A Minimal Cost

Post by Les Schubert » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:39 pm

I think a important factor is “how much of the work can you do yourself “??
If you are somewhat skilled and have access to a lathe and other tools, then here is my way.
1. Install a model A crank. Two options here. One is to relocate the block 5/8” ahead to deal with the extra length at the back of the crank. Other is to shorten the back of the crank the necessary 5/8”. I have a no weld method that has worked!
Now that you have a much stronger bottom end and more displacement and torque from the increased stroke the game can move on!!
2. A variety of cams available.
3. I like the Prus head because of the shape of the combustion chamber.
4. The Chaffin intake manifold
5. A GOOD ignition system!! I will stay away from a recommendation here as I like them all.
6. Definitely BALANCED flywheel!!

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Henry K. Lee
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Re: HP At A Minimal Cost

Post by Henry K. Lee » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:22 pm

The real question is....,

How much does your car weigh and what are your expectations? Performance has cost and disappointments have a higher cost! What do you want out of the upgrades?

Humble Hank

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rnwilliams
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Re: HP At A Minimal Cost

Post by rnwilliams » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:46 pm

I'm with Jim on this. I had an engine built with high compression pistons. Never lived up to my expectations. I took the engine back down and rebuilt it with aluminum pistons and one of Kevin's P Heads. Same engine, same car. The car came to life. It made all the difference in the world.
I have another car I'm building that has never been started. It has HC pistons. I'm going to take them out and replace them before I ever start the car.
Richard Williams, Humboldt, TN
President, Tennessee T's inc.


Les Schubert
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Re: HP At A Minimal Cost

Post by Les Schubert » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:58 pm

Further to Ricky’s post, about 20 years ago I put high dome pistons into my 13 engine with a 280 cam, a Chaffin intake, a Stromberg OF and a Trufire ignition. It has been a good tour car (probably 6,000 miles) reliable and easy to hand crank (it is a 13 after all and RHD)!!

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Tim Rogers
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Re: HP At A Minimal Cost

Post by Tim Rogers » Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:16 am

Pictured is my intended result so it's not going to be a heavy car and speed is not my goal- just more grunt at the throttle...
go job.jpg
go job.jpg (14.68 KiB) Viewed 654 times
<o><o><o><o> Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks - Forum member since 2013 <o><o><o><o>


David Mazza
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Re: HP At A Minimal Cost

Post by David Mazza » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:00 am

Tim, sent you email. Also btw we are building essentially the exact same car! I am building a lowered, fenderless, 25 roadster. And in another note I’m in western ma, and there are four more people building very similar correct 1920s-30s style hotrods in my immediate area. Drop me a line!


David Mazza
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Re: HP At A Minimal Cost

Post by David Mazza » Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:07 am

Here are some inspirational pics.
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