Side curtain fasteners question

[Mark Osterman]

I am now thinking about side curtains on the 23 runabout. I’m confused about how they are fastened. My assumption is that the fronts are secured to the windshield bracket and posts with flat hooks. Then the top of the fronts are held inside by three common sense twisty fasteners that are on each side of my front bows. There is also a common sense fastener on the outside of the arm rest in either side that holds the bottom of each side.

The back curtain must connect to the lift the dot fasteners that also hold the side curtains to the metal legs of the top assembly but I’m guessing I would need to replace the short ones that came with the top kit to hold a double thickness? I don’t see any other fasteners in the back or outside the car. Maybe the front edge of the back curtains affix to the back of the front side curtains ... maybe with common sense fasteners. Can someone please post pictures of all the contact areas on a runabout top from 23-25?

[CudaMan]

Here's a diagram from elsewhere on the forum. You will need Adobe Acrobat to open the files once they have downloaded onto your computer. The diagrams don't show a common sense fastener in the middle of the interface between the front & rear curtains, but you might want to add one, like this picture of 1925 curtains.

[CudaMan]

Be aware that the hooks on the windshield posts are different sizes, the upper ones are long and curved, the lower ones are shorter and straighter. The vendors carry the short one, but the long ones are harder to find.

Short hook: https://www.modeltford.com/item/7831B.aspx

Picture of the long hook:

[Original Smith]

The secret to side curtains, and everything else is research. I don't see much merit on the above post, only guesses! I made mine using originals, and original Ford prints. I also use original fasteners. Even the top has one side curtain fastener on each side of the top flap over the windshield.

[Mark Osterman]

Well .. in lieu of having an original in my hands I need to “rely on the kindness of strangers.” Can you please post pictures of your original curtains? My car had no curtains but it did have the fasteners inside the bows and on the arm rest. I do also have some of the original
clips for the front.

[CudaMan]

Larry and others have shared detailed photos of their OEM Ford side curtains before:

https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=2907

viewtopic.php?t=9772

[Mark Osterman]

Thanks for posting the link. Never hurts to help again .. right? When I did a search I couldn’t find them. But I don’t actually see any detail photographs of the inside and outside of the side curtain installation on a 1923 runabout. Have I missed that too? So sorry to ask again.

[Mark Osterman]

Mark, I did see some pictures of your installation but not all the points of contact.

[Mark Osterman]

These are the front side curtain clips I have. One set has a circular mounting hole ... the others gave a square mounting hole. From what gather from the links Mark posted the square hole version with the shorter hook must go on the oil lamp bolt that also goes through the windshield mounting bracket. So the longer ones with the double curve and the circular mounting hole must share the same machine screw that secured the bottom windshield bracket.

[CudaMan]

I don't know if it's true for 1923 and up, but the front lower corner on the front side curtains on earlier cars with oil lamps had loops that went around the lamps instead of the hooks.

Here is another earlier thread that shows how I fastened my side curtains. I had them custom made by Classtique to fit around my spare tire carrier and side mirror. They also have much larger than stock clear panels for enhanced visibility.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/41 ... 1396461073

My curtains have wild deviations from factory stock and therefore should not be used as a reference for a museum or Stynoski award level restoration.

Larry Smith has invested a lot of personal time and effort determining what is factory correct, so your best bet is to do a Google search for "roadster side curtains original smith mtfca" and read through all of the old threads that pop up.

If this response is still not helpful or explicit enough, I beg your forgiveness.

[Mark Osterman]

Yes, I saw the posts you made regarding the oversized windows in your side curtains. Very neat. Now that you’ve had chances to them, what do you think? Would you change anything or do you like them as is?

[Original Smith]

I would like to post photos of the original side curtains I have, but they are in a pile of others in the rafters in my garage. I'm on the road now, and can't even find any photos of originals I have pictures of. Maybe after I get home.
What would be really cool if someone would make the white Ford tabs that were on these side curtains new, and have a method of printing the data required for each individual side curtain! Please be aware that some of the tags on NOS side curtains say 1925 roadster. They are not! You must find the ones that say 23-25.
I helped Mike Francis purchase a stack of NOS side curtains at Hershey last year. He maybe able to help locate some patterns you need.
This is extremely important. When making side curtains don't punch the holes where the print says they are supposed to go! Make a Kraft paper template of where you believe the curtain will go. You can patch the paper one many times until you get the final fit, and then, and only then use the paper template to locate where the final hole will be.

[Mark Osterman]

Yes, I have seen you comment about this before in earlier threads. Also seen the pictures of your roadster pickup with the side curtains installed though never seen any detail shots of that which would be very interesting.

Since my T has side lights would I still install the smaller flat hook on the front bolt that passes through the lamp bracket and the windshield bracket? Or was there a variant way to attach the front curtain in that spot?

[CudaMan]

To answer one of your questions, I am very happy with my custom side curtains from Classstique. If I had known better at the time, I would have mounted my side mirror higher on the windshield post like most folks do and as seen in period pictures. It's too late now, my driver side curtain has a notch in it for the lower mirror location. An alternative to notching the side curtain would have been to purchase the Model A side mirror that straps on top of the spare tire. That would have worked great for my spare tire location and I wouldn't have had to notch the side curtain at all.

My car doesn't have oil lamps, so I can't answer your question on whether the lower hooks would still work or not. Can someone with a '23-'25 with oil lamps comment on how they attach the lower front corner of their side curtains?

[Original Smith]

Mark: Tim Morsher is offering free correct lower side curtain hooks for your car. The ones you have pictured are not correct.

[CudaMan]

By the way, the bag that the vendors sell to store the side curtains when they aren't being used isn't correct either. Here is an older thread about the configuration of the current vendor roll versus an original Ford curtain roll:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/82 ... 1526061917

Larry Smith sent me the dimensions of his original roll and I made a copy for myself using some vinyl top material and my 1948 Singer sewing machine.