Mystery Engine. Need help Identifying

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Marty Bufalini
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Mystery Engine. Need help Identifying

Post by Marty Bufalini » Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:41 pm

I know this is a Model T forum, but you are all so knowledgable, I thought I'd ask here.

My son came across this engine in the garage of the home he just got.

Any idea what it's for? What year? Value?

Thanks
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Scott_Conger
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Re: Mystery Engine. Need help Identifying

Post by Scott_Conger » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:16 pm

Scott Conger

Full Flow Float Valves - deliver fuel like Henry intended!

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Mark Gregush
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Re: Mystery Engine. Need help Identifying

Post by Mark Gregush » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:45 pm

Some sort of fuel injection system?
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1921 Huckster
1925 Cut down pickup


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Re: Mystery Engine. Need help Identifying

Post by big2bird » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:24 pm

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutbrod


Its quite rare. As for value, find a collector.

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RajoRacer
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Re: Mystery Engine. Need help Identifying

Post by RajoRacer » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:01 pm

It's a 2 cylinder diesel.

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Mark Gregush
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Re: Mystery Engine. Need help Identifying

Post by Mark Gregush » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:26 pm

Steve might want to read Big2bird's posted link, it's gas.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

1921 Huckster
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Re: Mystery Engine. Need help Identifying

Post by RajoRacer » Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:02 am

Thanks Mark - I knew it was an injection system but didn't read the article. One wouldn't know without being familiar with that particular unit.

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Re: Mystery Engine. Need help Identifying

Post by TRDxB2 » Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:38 pm

The wikipedia link pointed to a web site that is the equivalent to MTFCA http://www.standard-gutbrod.de/ but its in German (auf Deutch) which I was never really good at too many years ago. Perhaps someone can search their forum for information. The site also lists contacts. From browsing the site and others Gutbrod was into motorcycles, cars and lawn & garden equipment. Wiki info " Claimed power output was 20 hp (15 kW) for the base version, while for the larger engine 26 hp (19 kW) or 30 hp (22 kW) was claimed according to whether fuel feed came via a carburetor or a form of fuel injection" So I did a search on the forum for "Einspritzer" (injection used Google Translate for that word) and found this posting http://68957.homepagemodules.de/t186f3- ... itzer.html From using Google translate for some of the text it appears that since the engine was a 2 stroke it injected oil into the cylinders - its not a diesel. You can use Google Translate to translate sections of that posting but cut and pasting as shown The link discusses fixing the injection system
gut02.jpg
YouTube showing some cars https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zefw9YIm-sw that's where I got the picture from which don't look like they have injection " Claimed power output was 20 hp (15 kW) for the base version, while for the larger engine 26 hp (19 kW) or 30 hp (22 kW) was claimed according to whether fuel feed came via a carburetor or a form of fuel injection"
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gut1.jpg
gut2.jpg


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Re: Mystery Engine. Need help Identifying

Post by big2bird » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:03 pm

Post on the German forum. I guarantee someone on the board will speak english. We won that war. :lol:

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Re: Mystery Engine. Need help Identifying

Post by Henry K. Lee » Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:23 pm

Not cool to poke at another losses! Germans are great, proud people.

Hank


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Re: Mystery Engine. Need help Identifying

Post by big2bird » Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:43 pm

Henry K. Lee wrote:
Thu Oct 29, 2020 3:23 pm
Germans are great, proud people.

Hank
Yes, we are. We also have a sense of humor.

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Re: Mystery Engine. Need help Identifying

Post by Michael Peternell » Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:24 pm

Live in Minnesota. You can tell the nastiest German/Polish/Scandahuvian joke and everyone gets it!


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Re: Mystery Engine. Need help Identifying

Post by Aarongriffey » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:25 pm

I spent three years in Germany from 1956 to June 1959.
I saw many of those cars. Gutbrod.
They were twocycle engines, were not fuel injected. They were not diesels.
They ran on a mixture of oil and gasoline.
Our neighbor had one and always parked it on the sidewalk right by the door to his apartment.
The body was made with a wooden frame covered with a canvas type material like an airplane.
My wife called those cars a wood box.
My iPad won’t let me spell out the German words for wood box.


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Re: Mystery Engine. Need help Identifying

Post by Aarongriffey » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:39 pm

Some later two cycle cars, like DKW, had an oil injection system which injected oil right into the cylinders.
They used far less oil and helped to keep it well lubricated when decelerating or going down a long hill. They also smoked a lot less than the ones with oil in the gas.
It looks like that one pictured had oil injection.
My wife and I drove our three cylinder two cycle DKW from St. Paul to California and back. It really freaked some people out when they saw me pour a quart of oil in the gas tank each time I gassed up. Two cycle cars were hard on gas.
Prior to about ‘68 the SAAB cars were two cycle three cylinder. Then they went to a V4 Ford engine to avoid the two cycle smoke.


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Re: Mystery Engine. Need help Identifying

Post by Aarongriffey » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:46 pm

Please don’t make jokes about the Polish people.
The ones in Nord east Minneapolis are the first to figure out how to land on the sun without getting burned.
They’re gonna do it at night.


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Re: Mystery Engine. Need help Identifying

Post by Aarongriffey » Thu Oct 29, 2020 9:49 pm

That Gutbrod pictured is a lot newer than any I have ever seen. It has a metal body.
The ones I saw were shaped like a box with fenders.


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Re: Mystery Engine. Need help Identifying

Post by Aarongriffey » Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:24 pm

I do remember seeing those cars when I was in Germany.
Maybe my neighbor had some other make car.
I didn’t pay much attention to the little buggers when I was there.
I also guggled Gutbrod cars.
Seems they held of on fuel injection until 1920.
So I guess the one pictured does have fuel injection after all.
I still think my neighbor’s wood box was a Gutbrod. Maybe not.

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Re: Mystery Engine. Need help Identifying

Post by TRDxB2 » Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:33 am

Some more images of the GUTBROD (English translation "Good Bread". The one that is for sale for $38K must make the engine worth a few Euros! Google translate of "Wooden box" in German is "Holzkiste" Not sure if the 1933 Superior is that Holzkiste
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gut3.jpg


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Marty Bufalini
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Re: Mystery Engine. Need help Identifying

Post by Marty Bufalini » Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:32 pm

Well, thanks for all the replies.

Now I'm more confused than ever.

What German forum are we suggesting I post the pics on?

Thanks again

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Re: Mystery Engine. Need help Identifying

Post by Kaiser » Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:24 am

O.k I did some searching on the Interwebs, here's what i found :
The motor you show is from a 'Gutbrod Superior' introduced in 1951 it was the first car produced in series that had mechanical gasoline injection directly into the cylinders. the guy who engineered the system, Hans Scharenberg, later went to work for Daimler Benz and developed the system further for use on the famous Mercedes 300 SL Gullwing in 1954.
The injections were produced by Robert Bosch Gmbh in Germany
I think you'll have a hard time finding a Gutbrod Superior Stateside, but there is a group of enthousiasts in Germany.
That little two stroke engine is a nice piece of automotive history in itself !
When in trouble, do not fear, blame the second engineer ! 8-)
Leo van Stirum, Netherlands
'23 Huckster, '66 CJ5 daily driver

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