1926 Tudor Clutch or Clutch Spring issue

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colonelpowers
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First Name: Joshua
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* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Tudor
Location: Marion, Virginia

1926 Tudor Clutch or Clutch Spring issue

Post by colonelpowers » Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:17 pm

Hello,
I have a 26 tudor and have a transmission question that I hope I could get some help with. I have fooled with T's in the past but have never had to get into working on the clutch disks. My transmission works fine in low and reverse but when you let it into high it chatters and jerks. Sometimes it stops and smooths out but sometimes it doesn't. I was out tonight and climbing a not too steep hill it really started acting up and I had to go to low. I guess my question is do you think a new clutch spring might help or should I just go ahead and pull the engine and do the clutch as well. Also, what do you all think of the wooden bands that are available. I have only dealt with the cotton and Kevlar types before but if I have to actually tear into the transmission I thought about trying the wooden ones.

Thanks and God Bless,
Joshua A. Powers


Norman Kling
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Re: 1926 Tudor Clutch or Clutch Spring issue

Post by Norman Kling » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:33 pm

The first thing to check is the length of the parking brake rods. If they are adjusted too long, it will pull the parking brake lever back when you use the low pedal and then when you let it out in high it will do exactly as you describe. If you push the parking brake lever all the way forward it will run OK in high until the next time you shift up from neutral or low.
If this is the cause of your problem you can re-adjust the brake rods. When you take out the clevis pins, and you have the brake lever all the way forward and the lever on the brake backing plate all the way back, the clevis pin should fit right in without forcing. If you make an adjustment, be sure to check the parking brake to be sure it is equalized and not pull to one side when you pull on the brake lever. Any other cause would involve the clutch disks and spring inside the transmission.
Norm


Jerry VanOoteghem
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Re: 1926 Tudor Clutch or Clutch Spring issue

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:14 am

Joshua,

You are saying that the car chatters & jerks. You are not saying that the clutch slips, which would be the #1 complaint with a high speed clutch problem. Therefore, without experiencing it firsthand, I am thinking that your trouble is not in the clutch.

How do you go about letting the clutch into high? Do you come out of low, pause, push the throttle up & allow a moment for the engine to slow down to match the speed of the car, before letting the clutch into high? Or, do you make no adjustment to the throttle and simply let the clutch pedal snap back into high? Lots of people do the latter. It makes for chatter, jerking and will eventually damage the clutch disc lugs inside your brake drum. Also, how fast do you go in low before shifting to high? Shifting too soon can cause the engine to lug and jerk.

The other thought, is that you have an engine miss. When the engine is revving at high speeds, while in low, a misfire or two is hardly noticed, as it passes so quickly. However, when you shift to high, the engine is turning fairly slow and every single cylinder is needed in order to smoothly accelerate. If a cylinder or two drops out, it's very noticeable and causes jerking.


Topic author
colonelpowers
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:04 pm
First Name: Joshua
Last Name: Powers
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Tudor
Location: Marion, Virginia

Re: 1926 Tudor Clutch or Clutch Spring issue

Post by colonelpowers » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:45 pm

Hello,
I want to thank you two for your input. I checked the brake rods and they are adjusted correctly. One brake lining was greasy and grabbing a little so I am going to try cleaning it with some kerosene. I haven't noticed a miss but you could have a point. I have never changed plugs when I got the car since they looked good, though I replaced the coils and wiring. I have a new set i will put in and see if that makes a difference. As for shifting technique, I do generally just ease up on the pedal into high gear without really lowering the idle speed. That was the way I was taught years ago and never really thought about it. After I do the plugs tomorrow i will take it out and try the gentler shifting method and see if that makes a difference.

Thanks and God Bless,
Joshua A Powers


Adam
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Re: 1926 Tudor Clutch or Clutch Spring issue

Post by Adam » Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:37 am

It’s probably just bad shifts.

You close the throttle when you shift, then open it slowly to pick up the load in high gear.

Same as you would when driving a manual transmission except the location of all the controls are different.


Topic author
colonelpowers
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:04 pm
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* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Tudor
Location: Marion, Virginia

Re: 1926 Tudor Clutch or Clutch Spring issue

Post by colonelpowers » Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:21 pm

Hello Again,
Firstly, I want to say that you are right about the bad shifts. Reducing the throttle and then going into high certainly took away the chatter but I still have something not right. Something seems to be holding the car back in high gear. It may just be that the clutch is slipping or the spring is weak but it acts like a brake is on when you are in high gear. When I came back in I did check to see if the hand brake drums were hot and they were not. The low band is adjusted so that the pedal is just above the floor board (maybe 1/4 inch before touching). The brake is about the same. I cannot see any drag caused by reverse either so I just do not know. One curious thing, in high, I can only make the engine rev up about half way and any thing past that there is no change in the engine which makes me question it being a slipping clutch. I would expect it to rev up more easily if the clutch were slipping.

Any Ideas?

Thanks and God Bless,

Joshua A. Powers


Bill Coyle
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Re: 1926 Tudor Clutch or Clutch Spring issue

Post by Bill Coyle » Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:23 pm

Joshua,
Maybe your ignition timing is a bit out of adjustment, and it's not advancing as far as you need to develop the power required for High Gear.
Bill


Norman Kling
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Re: 1926 Tudor Clutch or Clutch Spring issue

Post by Norman Kling » Sun Nov 01, 2020 3:52 pm

If you had a slipping clutch, when you give it gas, the engine would speed up but the car would not increase speed. If you shift into high, the engine will be turning much slower and it will strain a bit until you pick up some speed. Two things you might think about are: if you are running on magneto, you will notice when you advance or retard the spark you will move the lever a few notches, and then the next notch it will seem to jump either faster or slower. When the engine is running fast, you can have the lever all the way down, but when the engine slows down, move up the lever to the next point. The idea is when the engine is moving slower, the spark is retarded a bit so the spark will start to burn the fuel as soon as the piston reaches top dead center but when the engine is running faster, you advance the spark because the piston is moving faster than the fuel can burn. This advance or retard is in accordance with the engine speed, not the vehicle speed. The other thing is you can rev the engine a bit faster in low before you make the shift. This would be especially true when going uphill. Remember a sedan is heavier than a roadster or touring, so it takes a little more power to reach the same speed and will take a bit longer.
Another problem I had with mine is mismatched parts. I had a high volume intake manifold on a stock engine with stock Holly NH carburetor and had the same symptoms. It would run good at fast engine speeds, but when pulling either when shifting up or pulling a hill it would run better with part throttle than with full throttle. I installed a stock manifold and it pulls hills and accelerates much better. One more thing could be your gear ratio. Standard Ford gearing in the rear axle will give you better low speed performance than a higher ratio which will go faster on level ground at top speed. With the heavier body, the standard ratio would be better.
Hope I have covered everything.
Norm


Topic author
colonelpowers
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:04 pm
First Name: Joshua
Last Name: Powers
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Tudor
Location: Marion, Virginia

Re: 1926 Tudor Clutch or Clutch Spring issue

Post by colonelpowers » Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:09 pm

Hello Again,
The timing idea seems plausible i will check that tomorrow. The car has an older brush type timer. Do these ever give trouble? Someone also commented about the intake but it is a stock manifold so that shouldn't be the problem. I did temporarily put a fuel filter on the car to see if there was any junk in the tank. I used a filter for a mower since they are gravity fed but I don't think that could be causing the problem. I wish one of you were close to Marion, Virginia and could just take it for a spin to see what you think. It is almost humorous to me how contrary this nice old t has been. I had a 1919 touring several years ago that had been parked forever. It still had 1937 tags and inspection sticker on it. The car didn't hardly have any paint on it and the top was in shreds but I put gas and a battery in that car and it started right up and ran and drove perfectly the entire time that I owned it.I

I am sure that we will get this thing straighter out soon. I really appreciate everyone's help.

Thanks and God Bless.

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Henry K. Lee
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Re: 1926 Tudor Clutch or Clutch Spring issue

Post by Henry K. Lee » Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:54 pm

A chattering or vibration coming from when engaging into high can also be caused by excessive worn and gouged inner and outer lugs on the brake drum and inner drive basket.

Just Sayin'

Hank


Topic author
colonelpowers
Posts: 129
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2020 8:04 pm
First Name: Joshua
Last Name: Powers
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Tudor
Location: Marion, Virginia

Re: 1926 Tudor Clutch or Clutch Spring issue

Post by colonelpowers » Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:22 pm

Mr Lee had mentioned worn lugs in the brake drum and something else (I don't have his reply handy to quote it exactly). Is there any easy way to check that out? I have been trying out everyone's suggestions because I know that your knowledge is far greater than my own but the general roughness relating to high gear seems like it has to be in the transmission but it doesn't seem like a slipping clutch. I certainly hope that it is something as simple as timing since this car is trying to bankrupt me.

Thanks again and God Bless


Norman Kling
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Re: 1926 Tudor Clutch or Clutch Spring issue

Post by Norman Kling » Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:01 pm

If you have the original clutch, a 26-27 has an insert on each of the lugs on the brake drum and does not usually get worn like the earlier ones do. I don't know what brand of timer you have, but if it is a New Day they are almost fool proof. Very seldom need cleaning or service. However over the years a New Day timer brush can wear out and the cap can become worn so that it doesn't always make good contact. If you are firing on all 4 I would suspect either of three things. Fuel supply, Improper timing, or shifting at too low a speed. Remember the T only has two gears forward, so you need to rev up a bit in low to keep it from lugging in high.
Norm

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