Mountain pan.
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Topic author - Posts: 147
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- First Name: Roger
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Mountain pan.
Happy Halloween All,
Is anyone manufacturing/selling a Horlick-style mountain pan (4-dip)? I'd like to install one on my current rebuild.
Thanks.
R/ Roger.
Is anyone manufacturing/selling a Horlick-style mountain pan (4-dip)? I'd like to install one on my current rebuild.
Thanks.
R/ Roger.
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Re: Mountain pan.
Do you mean this;
https://www.modeltford.com/item/T4DP-2.aspx
https://www.modeltford.com/item/T4DP-2.aspx
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
1925 Cut down pickup
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1925 Cut down pickup
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Re: Mountain pan.
No, that's not it. Terry puts dams along the back sides of the dips to keep oil in them when the car is climbing a hill. I believe he solders them in. I think it's a DIY project.
The inevitable often happens.
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Re: Mountain pan.
What a stupid thing to do! I wonder how long that solder would last?
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Re: Mountain pan.
Original Smith wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:16 amWhat a stupid thing to do! I wonder how long that solder would last?
"I believe he solders them in."
Is it impossible for you to be nice?
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Re: Mountain pan.
Duh! Didn't click, need more coffee!
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup
1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup
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Re: Mountain pan.
The solder on the magneto coil and button lasts permanently, bathed in the same oil that's in the engine, and presumably the same or nearly the same temperature. The melting point of most solder is 360º-370º F. Does engine oil get that hot? Not even close. I can't say whether those dams are effective, but they will last just fine.
The inevitable often happens.
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Re: Mountain pan.
The solder should last, however you would have to remove the inspection plate every time you change the oil unless he left a drain in each of the plates soldered on. Even with the original dips, some oil is left each time the oil is changed. To get all the would need to elevate the front of the car and pour in a quart while the plug is still out even with the original dips.
Norm
Norm
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Re: Mountain pan.
I'm trying to figure how the deeper sump will help. Follow along if you will...
The deeper sump means there's more oil in the front half of the bottom of your egine. That's fine, more oil is good. But the issue is, if a T is designed to "scavenge" the oil out of the 4 (or 3) "slots" holding oil to lube the rods (and fling that oil thereabouts into the various other surfaces that need oil), I would be worried that when your oil level drops lower in the deeper pan (because T's do go through oil), it will be below the level where the rods (even equipped with dippers) can reach it...so you have this resevoir of iol below where the rods can access it.
Now on a full pressure (or even a semi-pressure pumped) system, it doesn't mater, because you put the pickup in the bottom of said sump, where it gets squirted to all points north, and bob's your uncle. But on a naturally aapirated lubricated system, those extra quarts of oil sitting below your rods are just sitting there, teasing your rods as they get dryer and dryer, because the "splash oiling system" ins't getting "splash"...
Maybe I'm wrong, and someone can 'splain it to me, but without a way to get that oil down deep into the parts that didst whirl and gyre, it's just sitting there, and lubrucating as well as what's still in the glass bottle, er, paper can, er, plastic bottle at home... because nothing can reach it.
The deeper sump means there's more oil in the front half of the bottom of your egine. That's fine, more oil is good. But the issue is, if a T is designed to "scavenge" the oil out of the 4 (or 3) "slots" holding oil to lube the rods (and fling that oil thereabouts into the various other surfaces that need oil), I would be worried that when your oil level drops lower in the deeper pan (because T's do go through oil), it will be below the level where the rods (even equipped with dippers) can reach it...so you have this resevoir of iol below where the rods can access it.
Now on a full pressure (or even a semi-pressure pumped) system, it doesn't mater, because you put the pickup in the bottom of said sump, where it gets squirted to all points north, and bob's your uncle. But on a naturally aapirated lubricated system, those extra quarts of oil sitting below your rods are just sitting there, teasing your rods as they get dryer and dryer, because the "splash oiling system" ins't getting "splash"...
Maybe I'm wrong, and someone can 'splain it to me, but without a way to get that oil down deep into the parts that didst whirl and gyre, it's just sitting there, and lubrucating as well as what's still in the glass bottle, er, paper can, er, plastic bottle at home... because nothing can reach it.
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Re: Mountain pan.
Actually it is just dams toward the rear of the dimples to hold oil for the rods. Ask Admin Jeff to post pictures of the one I built for him, cannot seem to find them. He said it worked out great on his hill.
Hope this Helps,
Hank
Hope this Helps,
Hank
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Re: Mountain pan.
Susanne, if you are asking about the wrong item I posted; Even with a pump and drilled crankshaft you would still need to lubricate the valves, pistons and wrist pins, so I assume the inspection plate is still used and the deep sump was for holding and cooling more oil. ?
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup
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Re: Mountain pan.
Larry,
I braze the dams into my mountain pans.
Respectfully, TH
I braze the dams into my mountain pans.
Respectfully, TH
Last edited by Thorlick on Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:27 am, edited 4 times in total.
Terry Horlick, Penn Valley, CA
1927 Mountain Patrol Vehicle from the Los Angeles City Fire Department (L.A.F.D.)
1912 Model T Ford English Station Omnibus
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1912 Model T Ford English Station Omnibus
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Re: Mountain pan.
Silver solder is strong enough to hold Air Conditioning Compressor pressure on the high side for cooling, which cycles from high pressure to higher pressure for years without leaking or failing. Lead/Tin solder is strong enough to hold 99 % of the radiators in the world together under heated water conditions, many with pressure up to 22 LBs PSI like my Sport Trac does. Lead/Tin acid core solder manages to hold gas tanks full of explosive liquid that we carry under the seats in our cars, many of those tanks over 100 years old.
I wouldn't be worried about Soldering those dips in a pan but then I know how to solder. I also know how to braze. I went to school in rural America where boys took things like shop classes and had fathers who bought them 20 lbs of 6013 rod for Christmas and their birthday like my dad did when I was in high school. We had a welder and I knew how to weld with it.
Although I'm not the expert on every damn thing in the world like some people are.
I wouldn't be worried about Soldering those dips in a pan but then I know how to solder. I also know how to braze. I went to school in rural America where boys took things like shop classes and had fathers who bought them 20 lbs of 6013 rod for Christmas and their birthday like my dad did when I was in high school. We had a welder and I knew how to weld with it.
Although I'm not the expert on every damn thing in the world like some people are.
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Re: Mountain pan.
Rant removed...I used to help monitor the forum in the early days of this website and have now self edited! It was my job to remove offensive posts. I must admit I have jumped to an eroneous conclusion. I would like to apologize you all and especially to Stan. I no longer monitor the forum closely and don't recognize the trolls anymore.
Respectfully, TH
Respectfully, TH
Last edited by Thorlick on Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:53 am, edited 3 times in total.
Terry Horlick, Penn Valley, CA
1927 Mountain Patrol Vehicle from the Los Angeles City Fire Department (L.A.F.D.)
1912 Model T Ford English Station Omnibus
1927 Mountain Patrol Vehicle from the Los Angeles City Fire Department (L.A.F.D.)
1912 Model T Ford English Station Omnibus
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Re: Mountain pan.
Terry, I don't think Stans comment was aimed at you, but at the author of "it's stupid thing to do" who does seem to think he knows it all. Relax and enjoy!
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Re: Mountain pan.
Terry,
I can see your feathers were ruffled, but as Bill stated, "Not directed at You". That same person has a way of torquing some of us too tight. Life is too short.
Hank
I can see your feathers were ruffled, but as Bill stated, "Not directed at You". That same person has a way of torquing some of us too tight. Life is too short.
Hank
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Re: Mountain pan.
I never even thought that you would think that was directed at you, Terry.
Everybody knows who the world's greatest expert is, I assumed you did too.
Sorry if you took it that way.
Everybody knows who the world's greatest expert is, I assumed you did too.
Sorry if you took it that way.
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Re: Mountain pan.
Stan, Terry, do your homework.
The inevitable often happens.
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Re: Mountain pan.
You got it. I've tried to figure out how the rods can dip that deep into the pan and catch oil. Maybe you could modify an inspection cover so it (eventually) drains down into the deep sump, but still holds a significant amount of oil in the troughs to lube the rods, piston, cam, keepers, mains, etc...Mark Gregush wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:21 pmSusanne, if you are asking about the wrong item I posted; Even with a pump and drilled crankshaft you would still need to lubricate the valves, pistons and wrist pins, so I assume the inspection plate is still used and the deep sump was for holding and cooling more oil. ?
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Re: Mountain pan.
Susanne,
I have only seen a few of these big oil sumps on model Ts. They have all had drilled cranks and pumps (usually a VW oil pump on the back end of the camshaft, I think). I agree that if you don't have a tray like the inspection plate or an inspection plate with dams in place you are risking the big end of the rods. I assume that the flywheel and magnets should still create enough splash that there will still be a general oil mist inside the crankcase.
IMHO, TH
I have only seen a few of these big oil sumps on model Ts. They have all had drilled cranks and pumps (usually a VW oil pump on the back end of the camshaft, I think). I agree that if you don't have a tray like the inspection plate or an inspection plate with dams in place you are risking the big end of the rods. I assume that the flywheel and magnets should still create enough splash that there will still be a general oil mist inside the crankcase.
IMHO, TH
Terry Horlick, Penn Valley, CA
1927 Mountain Patrol Vehicle from the Los Angeles City Fire Department (L.A.F.D.)
1912 Model T Ford English Station Omnibus
1927 Mountain Patrol Vehicle from the Los Angeles City Fire Department (L.A.F.D.)
1912 Model T Ford English Station Omnibus
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