MTFCA Forum

I have a stroll next weekend. Most likely the last one before the repair season.
Any ideas on how I can slow down the leak?
Just need it to last one more day.
Then I will pull the hogshead for the overhaul and add O rings.

Leaking past the pedal shafts? Use 50 weight oil.

The following is not a temporary fix, but a permanent fix, at least for the next several years. To seal a transmission shaft leak, it is necessary to remove the drive plate and the fourth bearing and have the drive plate shaft turned and the fourth bearing re-babbited to match the drive plate shaft. I had this done when I rebuilt my engine in 2010 and it still does not leak from the rear ball cap. The rear of my transmission is also well supported, which relieves a lot of stress from the crankshaft flange and reduces vibration. Jim Patrick

Steve, do you mean the pedal shafts on the transmission cover/hogshead?

Allan from down under.

I think he’s talking about the pedal shafts. If it is indeed one of the last trips of the season and you’re going to fix it this winter; The best advice is probably just to keep an eye on the oil level and let it leak.

By the way; The “often-mentioned” hardware store o-rings set into a chamfer under the pedal cams usually doesn’t work very well...

I am talking about the fourth shaft. The first three are for the pedals that fourth one is for the clutch.
When I rebuild the hogshead, the shafts and/or the head will get sleeved.
Just needs to get me through one more day with the club stroll.

Steve, my cure depends on the year of the car. On an alloy cover where the inboard end of the shaft is open, I fit a thin walled bronze bushing into the hogshead, leaving approx 1/2" hanging outside the cover. Into this protrusion I fit a cup type freeze plug to close the end of the bush to close it.

On the outer end I made a tool to cut a land for a proper lip type oil seal. First the same thin walled bronze bush is fitted to take out the wear, and the hogshead and bush are cut simultaneously to receive the oil seal. Doing it this way has some advantages over the oil seal trick. With new shafts, it takes out all the wear, reducing the likelihood of leaks. There is no drag on the shafts which can be induced by a crushed O ring, which can in turn, mean they do not come off the ramps as they should. They work.

Allan from down under.

I am talking about the fourth shaft.

That means the tail shaft and ball cap, not pedal shafts. I believe Jim got this one.

Or the high gear shaft (circled)? Slowing a leak there could be a challenge, but if it's just one more day maybe just wrap the exposed end of the shaft with a lot of felt or a rag wrapped with duct tape. If nothing else, it will filter the oil that leaks out.

If it's the transmission output shaft, I would think that just pumping the ball cap full of grease would slow down the leakage enough to get through one more day.

Cudaman,
That's the point that is leaking.
bailing wire and duct tape to the rescue.

Sounds like for your parade day you need a Huggies Diaper or Kotex. The super absorbent type work really good for holding a lot of fluid before anything drips out!!
I use this idea on a modern car with a rear main oil seal leak every time at oil change. Works perfect and no driveway drips!

Allan, did you have a picture perhaps you may share? your solution look interesting as well.

Mario, I have yet to master posting photos from my new phone. I have posted some of the procedure previously, but have no idea just when, and have never used the search function. Perhaps someone can re-post them for you.

Allan from down under.

Felt has always been used by Ford as gaskets to stem the flow of oil and fuel. Three that come to mind are the hogshead, the front crankshaft seal and on the fuel valve, so, I see no reason why felt would not work here. If you have an extra hogshead felt strip gasket, wrap it around the shaft leaving a portion lying flat around the shaft and push the felt up tightly against the hogshead where the shaft enters the hogshead then tighten a hose clamp over the flat portion of the felt, thus holding the felt in place tightly against the hogshead where the shaft enters. In case the felt somehow slides away from the shaft housing, a second clamp tightened onto the bare shaft and pushed tightly against the first clamp and felt will keep it securely in place. Jim Patrick.

Jim,
A picture is worth a 1,000 words.
Thank you. I will dig out some felt from my last hogs head install.

I hope it works. Let us know. Jim Patrick

Good thing about those clamps is that they can be totally loosened and opened up to wrap onto the shaft, then re-threaded like a belt and tightened. Be sure to get a big enough clamp so that you can easily re-thread it. Any excess can be cut off with a Dremel tool equipped with a thin metal cutoff blade on an EZ Lock shaft. Jim Patrick

Steve. Just curious. Were you able to stop the oil leaking from your clutch shaft using the felt? Jim Patrick

The test will be 11/14. I was told it was this weekend.
But for now It seems to be doing well.

Good to know. Jim Patrick

Jim

Would it pay to soak the felt with any kind of product to help it seal? Like RTV or soap.

I doubt it David. The good thing about felt is that it is dense and slick, which allows it to easily turn with the shaft while maintaining the seal against the hogshead. I think a coat of RTV would cause the felt to bind and prevent it from turning against the hogshead as the shaft turns. As long as the felt is pushed as tight as possible against the hogshead,the pressure should be sufficient to stem the flow of any oil that escapes the crankcase through the clutch shaft. An application of soap, while not necessary, might allow the felt to more easily turn against the hogshead, but might also allow the clamped felt to turn on the shaft or allow the tightly clamped felt to slide away from the hogshead. With the existence of that possibility, I would keep the felt dry and just like in first aid treatment to “apply pressure to stop the bleeding”, I would rely on pressure to stop the leak. I would recommend one more thing and that is to use 80 grit sandpaper to rough up around the shaft just outside the hogshead where the felt will be clamped, to prevent any movement of the felt, down the shaft after tightening the clamp. Jim Patrick

I don’t believe the felt repair is the best way to solve the leak issue. The shaft should be allowed to float left and right on its own. If you push a piece of felt against the hogshead and clamp it, you are loading the internal clutch release forks, the bronze clutch release collar, and the clutch yoke collar against the driving plate pulling everything to the left instead of allowing them to float. I’ve taken apart a few engines that have had “repairs” like this and the side of one clutch release fork and one side of the bronze release collar were worn enough they couldn’t be re-used.

Unlike the three pedals which are designed to move in and out in order to squeeze and release the bands, the clutch shaft is does not “float”, or move in and out for it is firmly connected to the bronze clutch release ring that only moves fore and aft in the sliding clutch collar and is unable to move from side to side. The same is true for the emergency brake clutch (neutral) adjustment bolt that slides along the clutch shaft cam rides forward and back and, for safety reasons cannot move to the right or left. If the shaft were to float to the left and right, as you suggest, the adjustment bolt could not maintain it’s position on top of the cam. If anything, the tightening of the felt would prevent any floating of the shaft, which cannot be tolerated in order for the clutch to work properly, for if it did “float” enough to cause the emergency brake adjustment bolt to slip off the cam, it could throw the transmission in gear, with catastrophic results. Jim Patrick.

Open up your transmission inspection cover and look inside. Put your hand lever all the way forward. Now move the clutch release shaft left and right. It does have a certain amount of lash. The mid-point of this movement is its natural center and where the internal clutch release parts aren’t wearing against anything when the car is running in high gear... Keeping it “pulled” one way or the other causes long term metal-to-metal contact on some moving parts that were never intended to work that way.

Short term, you can get away with a repair like that. Long term, it chews up the area in the clutch release arms where the bronze collar mounts. I’ve seen them chewed almost in half from a common shadetree “Fix” which involves a very light spring, washer, and o-ring on the inside of the hogshead. The spring generally has just enough push to keep the o-ring seated and even that small pressure causes wear issues within a few thousand miles.

There is no metal to metal contact. Metal to bronze contact with plenty of oil between them results in no wear to the steel slide collar and very little wear to the bronze clutch release ring. Also, the felt will give somewhat to allow for a little floating. Either way, if there is a solution for the problem, I believe there is no better solution than a felt seal. If one is concerned with keeping the bronze clutch release ring centered in the groove, I suppose you could put the same felt and clamp configuration on the inside of the shaft, preventing the shaft from moving to the left with the pressure exerted by the outer clamp. Some would balk at doing this, but there is very little movement of this shaft when engaging and disengaging, so I think that the danger of a clamp failure would be minimal. Jim Patrick

The situation is similar to that found with manual gearboxes. The selection forks make contact with the selectors when making changes, but float otherwise. If drivers drive with their hand on the change lever, there is a load on the selector fork and they will wear. The load does not need to be great to accelerate this wear.

Allan from down under.

Thank you. I have enjoyed the discussion, which is a good example of what the forum is designed to do, which is to, with civility, provide the readers with both sides of the issue so they can arrive at their own conclusions by which to make a decision as to what to do. Jim Patrick

I like the idea of placing a brass shim around the shaft inside the bore combined with the felt and pipe clamp. Minimize the leak and soak it up!

Well Guys there is what happened yesterday.
The T unloaded just fine and moved to her spot in the parking lot.
It was time to depart for the day's travel.
It fired up and idled just fine for about 5 minutes.

Then died.
We fiddled with it for about an hour, she just would not keep running.
So my wife and I decided to drive the truck. Dropped the trailer and off for the day.
We have a club rule that the moderns follow. We did with the flashers on.

In the afternoon when the stroll was just about done. I went back to pick her up.
Hooked up the trailer, backed it up to the speedster, placed the ramps.
She fired up long enough for me to push the left pedal to load her.

Meet up with the stroll in progress.
They asked if I had to push it on the trailer.
Since I did push the left pedal, would that be considered being pushed on the trailer?
Does in my book.

So the slowing down the oil leak will have to be determined for another day.
After much discussion on another thread. I need a carburetor to match the head.

Thank you for your suggestions.