MTFCA Forum

I'm trying to find out what the correct tail light/license plate bracket is for a late 15 Touring car. I've been told they are 2 pieces but other than that I don't know what it might look like. If someone has a good picture, could you post them or send me an email. I've been looking far a while for one and nothing I've seen seems to match what I think is correct. Thus if I have a good picture, maybe I can locate and buy one, or put together enough parts to weld up a good facsimile. Thanks for any information available.

Do you text? My cell number is 269-719-7542 send me a text and I’ll take a picture and text it back to you. Or email at meyre14t@yahoo.com. I probably have an extra. They are made in two pieces.

The ‘15 will have a bolt on arm with nut to hold that arm for the license tag. A ‘16 will typically have riveted on arm to the body bracket.



Riveted on arm

The two piece one isn't real easy to find. Count on $100.

I guess the runabout and touring brackets are different. This is on my runabout.

Touring mounts under the rear of the body.

Actually, according to records at the Benson Ford Research Center, there were three different designs of rear tail light brackets used. The first style began to be used in May 1915. The first style, as mentioned above, was a 4 part assembly. It consists of the bracket, the arm, a 3/8 x 24 hex castle nut, and a cotter pin. The second style eliminated the hex nut and cotter pin by simply riveting the license arm to the bracket. It began in July, 1915. By September, the third style, the one piece combination bracket and arm began being used.

There were two types of these brackets. One type for the tourings, coupes and towncars, and a second type used on runabouts (roadster). The difference between the two is the mounting bracket.

The dates of when the different styles were used was determined by close examination of the monthly cost books at the Benson Ford. The cost books show when the castle nut and cotter pin were added, and when they were eliminated in July. They also show the elimination of the bracket and arm in September with introduction of the one piece tail light license bracket (it was cheaper to produce).

Respectfully submitted,

Trent Boggess

Trent B, I am a bit confused. You said " The first style began to be used in May 1915." The 1915 style bodies began serious production in January of 1915, so what bracket would have been used for those first four months? I have the correct "4 part assembly. It consists of the bracket, the arm, a 3/8 x 24 hex castle nut, and a cotter pin" for my '15 runabout. My car is not a good survivor car, but has a February 1915 built body and mostly proper era parts.

As to the OP's original question? If I recall correctly, just a few weeks ago, I seem to recall a 1915 touring car bracket being offered for sale in our classifieds section. As I recall, there was a good picture of it, and it looked pretty nice.

From Trent B:

"There were two types of these brackets. One type for the tourings, coupes and towncars, and a second type used on runabouts (roadster). The difference between the two is the mounting bracket."

I always thought the Coupelet used the same mounting bracket as the Runabout. Is this incorrect?

Mike, The 1916 coupelet used the same tail lamp bracket as the runabout, but the 1915 coupelet used the blade bracket that set the tail lamp off to the side of the trunk so the rear deck could be opened. I hope this helps, Russ Furstnow

To Wayne Sheldon:

1915 was the first year Model Ts came with a combination tail light/rear license plate holder. Cars produced before May 1915 used a tail light bracket that did not include the rear license bracket. So to answer your question, the style used before May 1915 was the same rear tail light bracket that was used on the 1914 and earlier cars.

I hope this helps.

Respectfully submitted,

Trent Boggess

So it would then be a "spade" mount tail lamp? I have seen a few such lamps over the years, but always thought they were after-market replacements for earlier cars.
Thank you Trent B !

Wayne, This one has me confused also. I know of a totally original 1915 Touring that is sitting in the Pioneer's Historical Museum in Flagstaff that has the two piece tail lamp/license bracket. The car was assembled in April 1915, and it was originally sold in 1915 by Babbitt Ford of Flagstaff. The oil tail lamp was replaced with a later electric lamp, but the bracket is the one Trent describes as the four piece bracket. Russ Furstnow

Thank you Russ F ! A lot of the minute details of model Ts will never be completely sorted out. However, I find them interesting. And I do want to make my early '15 as correct as I can. Even though my car is a reassembled "parts salad", and should never be considered an absolute reference for someone else's restoration, I want it to be as correct as I can make it.
One thing or another, I seem to lack the means to record and catalog all this stuff as much as I would like to. Much of what I did have on a previous computer was lost when the hard drive did a partial meltdown.

Since my car cannot be pinned down to a specific build date, I will probably use the "four part" tail-lamp bracket I bought many years ago, and what appears to be one of the several odd tail-lamps used by Ford early in the 1915 product line. It has the one bolt mount like all the later ones did, and the red lens and bezel are interchangeable with the standard common brass rimmed '15s. Although at a glance, the lamp looks very similar to the common '15 lamps, NOTHING else is the same! Even the brass top is slightly different (more bulbous). The chimney looks similar, but is very slightly shorter, and far more complicated inside. The oil font/bowl is squattier, and has a seam running all around the middle. I have seen a few era photos showing similar sidelamps on early '15 open cars.
It is also possible that the lamp could be another of those after-market replacement lamps. Those things cause a lot of confusion. But it sure looks neat!

I thank you, Trent B, Jerry VO, and all the other dedicated researchers that search out and find all these details they do!

I found this in my parts pile, some one as written 15/16 on it, nothing has been cut off it so could this have been added to the 14 /15 to add the licence plate? it can go left or right.

If you search: "Model T light bracket" on ebay, you will find two 1915 touring brackets without the license plate holder offered for sale.

Russ: Is it possible to post a side view of your early `15 coupe taillight bracket showing the mounting?

Frank - how would one attach your bracket ? I believe the body mount has been removed on that bracket.

Steve.
I checked out my 16 tail light and is of the same type of set up, the body bracket is the early tongue type of mount and the bolt of the light go's through the number plate mount and the tongue, making it mountable left or right, maybe just a Canadian thing.

Thank you for the explanation !

Larry, Here is a photo of the tail lamp bracket on my 1915 Coupelet. I have seen this same bracket in early photos of a 1915 runabout (See "Model T Times", #418, November December 2018, page 29). Regarding my comment about the original 1915 Touring in Flagstaff, I checked the engine number and casting date and the engine was cast on April 5, 1915 with a build date of April 8, 1915 according to the serial number stamped into the block. This car has not been disassembled and has the "four piece bracket" detailed by Trent Boggus. I hope this helps, Russ Furstnow

That's an interesting mount, Russ !

Early Coupelets are very interesting cars!!! Russ Furstnow