Take a look at my Gap. What do you think?

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
User avatar

Topic author
Mopar_man
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
First Name: Robert
Last Name: Govoni
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Touring
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
MTFCA Number: 32331
Board Member Since: 2016

Take a look at my Gap. What do you think?

Post by Mopar_man » Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:24 pm

So I gapped my Mag Ring and mad a video of how my gages fit. It has to be no closer than .025 and no bigger that .040. You can see that there are a few contacts that are a tight .025 thousandths. Will this be ok? The gage fits it's just tighter than some of the other areas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRZdu-u37o8


OilyBill
Posts: 552
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:51 pm
First Name: William
Last Name: May
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Runabout
Location: Tucson, Arizona

Re: Take a look at my Gap. What do you think?

Post by OilyBill » Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:30 pm

Better than it ever was on a production car, I'm sure.


Stephen_heatherly
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:03 pm
First Name: Stephen
Last Name: Heatherly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 coupe and 23 Runabout
Location: St. Louis MO

Re: Take a look at my Gap. What do you think?

Post by Stephen_heatherly » Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:51 pm

I would want a little more gap on the bottom. It should match the top. Some say you should have slightly more gap at the bottom, but if your pan is straight, it should be fine. I have about .030 all the way around on the mag in my runabout and the mag works wonderfully. Also, it doesn't appear that your magnet screws are peened over. That's very important so that the screws don't back out.

Stephen


Allan
Posts: 5201
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Take a look at my Gap. What do you think?

Post by Allan » Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:25 pm

Robert, some. myself included, have the poles on the flywheel surface ground so that the variation you are finding is eliminated. Not entirely necessary but it does make setting the clearances easier. I'd say you have it about right.

Allan from down under.

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Take a look at my Gap. What do you think?

Post by Steve Jelf » Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:40 pm

IMG_2666 copy.JPG
IMG_2674 copy.JPG
How I adjust magnet height to get them all within two or three thousandths.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


Stephen_heatherly
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:03 pm
First Name: Stephen
Last Name: Heatherly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 coupe and 23 Runabout
Location: St. Louis MO

Re: Take a look at my Gap. What do you think?

Post by Stephen_heatherly » Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:41 am

Did you use the kr Wilson magnet plate gauge to set the height of your magnets?

Stephen

User avatar

Henry K. Lee
Posts: 5339
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:09 am
First Name: Henry
Last Name: Lee
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Many
Location: South Pittsburg, TN
MTFCA Number: 479
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: Take a look at my Gap. What do you think?

Post by Henry K. Lee » Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:57 am

Nice Steve!!!!!

User avatar

Topic author
Mopar_man
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
First Name: Robert
Last Name: Govoni
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Touring
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
MTFCA Number: 32331
Board Member Since: 2016

Re: Take a look at my Gap. What do you think?

Post by Mopar_man » Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:09 am

So in answering the questions I have been getting.
Yes the Magnet screws have been peened over.
The magnet contacts on the flywheel has been surfaced.
The Mag ring has been surfaced.
I don't have the tool that you use to level out he MAG Ring.

My goal was to get it as close to .025 as I could. I'm just a bit concerned about the tightness at the bottom. You can see in the video that I can get the .025 gage in the gap but it's tight. I just don't want to be running the car and have it hit and explode on me.

Thanks again for all the input. Not sure if I'm over thinking this again.

User avatar

Topic author
Mopar_man
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
First Name: Robert
Last Name: Govoni
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Touring
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
MTFCA Number: 32331
Board Member Since: 2016

Re: Take a look at my Gap. What do you think?

Post by Mopar_man » Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:28 am

Well I just got a call from J&M Machine. I'm going to turn the crank 180 degrees and see if I get the same tightness on the bottom. If I do I'll remove some shims and make the gap bigger. I'll try to get it to .030.

Hopefully the crank flange is not bent.

Yes one issue leads to the other and sometimes you keep chasing a problem down the rabbit hole.

I'll put a plug in for J&M Machine again. Those guys are great! They keep checking up on me and reading the posts. Keeping me on the straight and narrow. Thanks again John and Mike.


John kuehn
Posts: 3907
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Kuehn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 19 Roadster, 21 Touring, 24 Coupe
Location: Texas
MTFCA Number: 28924

Re: Take a look at my Gap. What do you think?

Post by John kuehn » Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:33 am

Using the Ford service manual as a guide the setting you mentioned is probably OK. It’s as good as an average factory adjustment would have been. The manual says to add around .006 on the bottom because of the weight of the flywheel and transmission. It can move a little when the engine is turned in the horizontal position after getting the measurement in the vertical position on the engine stand.
The assembly line men had a certain amount of time to get an acceptable measurement when putting the engine and transmission together. If they got it exactly all the way around they were just lucky in my opinion.
Nowadays we take more time to get it as close as possible by adding shims or machining the magnet spools and other ways to achieve a more correct even adjustment. You can spend a lot more time and it’s up to the individual how far they want to go doing it. Ford got a good average and that was good enough for the factory assembly line.

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Take a look at my Gap. What do you think?

Post by Steve Jelf » Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:39 am

Donnie Brown can correct me if I'm misremembering this, but I believe he said he once set a mag gap at .011" and it was a charging son-of-a-gun and didn't explode. I expect your .025" is fine and .030" will be perfectly safe.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring

User avatar

Topic author
Mopar_man
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
First Name: Robert
Last Name: Govoni
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Touring
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
MTFCA Number: 32331
Board Member Since: 2016

Re: Take a look at my Gap. What do you think?

Post by Mopar_man » Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:21 pm

So tonight after work I went to the garage and turned the flywheel 180 degrees and had the same heavy drag in the same spot. So I'll be adjusting shims again to get my gap to .030. That way I'l have some grace space. At least the crank flange doesn't seem to have any big bends in it. :roll:


Norman Kling
Posts: 4068
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:39 pm
First Name: Norman
Last Name: Kling
Location: Alpine California

Re: Take a look at my Gap. What do you think?

Post by Norman Kling » Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:48 am

Mark the magnets which are loosest. Then rotate the flywheel and see if the looseness moves with the magnets or if it stays in the same area of the coil ring. If it moves with the magnets, then you would have to adjust the height of the magnets from the flywheel to get it any more equal. If the same area of the magneto ring has the looseness, you can adjust it with shims. Remember that if you add or remove shims in one area of the attachment to the block, you will change clearance all around. So you might need to make several adjustments until you get it as close all the way around.
Having said the above, since all the poles are at least 25 thousandths, I think it would work just fine as it is. Remember that when you have the engine pointing down, the flywheel is as close as it will ever be when running, because when it is in normal driving position, the flywheel will tend to run about equally spaced between as far forward and as far backward it rides in the bearing, however whenever the clutch is pushed, the flywheel will move backward away from the coils and the wear will be on the front of the bearing collar pushing the flywheel farther away from the magnets.
So if it were mine, I would leave as is.Just be sure the crankcase is straight and that the 4th main fits correctly.
Norm

User avatar

Topic author
Mopar_man
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
First Name: Robert
Last Name: Govoni
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Touring
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
MTFCA Number: 32331
Board Member Since: 2016

Re: Take a look at my Gap. What do you think?

Post by Mopar_man » Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:33 pm

So I tried to make the Gap a bit bigger. I was able to get the gap within the .025 to .040 of an inch. I tested the gap with a .040 feeler gage. I was unable to fit it for most contacts. There were a few however that were at .040 or a hair over. Take a look at where I am now in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c20iojNJcL8

I'm confident that I won't have any thing rubbing as all my gaps are above .025. My only concern are the few at .040 or slightly over. Not sure if that will cause it to make less electricity.

Sorry Norm I didn't see your post to try your tests.

Thanks everyone again.


John kuehn
Posts: 3907
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Kuehn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 19 Roadster, 21 Touring, 24 Coupe
Location: Texas
MTFCA Number: 28924

Re: Take a look at my Gap. What do you think?

Post by John kuehn » Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:47 pm

Looking at your video I would call it good. If you can get your feeler gauge in at .025 your good to go. Just as good as the Ford folks got it at the plant 90+ years ago. And they were having to keep the production rate up also!

User avatar

Topic author
Mopar_man
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
First Name: Robert
Last Name: Govoni
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Touring
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
MTFCA Number: 32331
Board Member Since: 2016

Re: Take a look at my Gap. What do you think?

Post by Mopar_man » Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:09 pm

If I worked at Ford setting this gap I would have been fired and sweeping the floor a long time ago. Ha!!!

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic