MTFCA Forum

when i bought my 21 touring several years ago among other things i went through the front steering replacing anything that was worn including a rebuilt spindles from snyders.I knew at the time i has the 4-1 gears in the column but ran out of fundss. I have driven it for 2 years and found that it steers well, no shimmny etc. I have the car in my shop for the winter planning on putting on a top. I measured the "slop" in the steering wheel and found from neutral there is 1 1/2 movement right and left before the wheels move or a total of 3 inches. My question is , is that too much "slop" or should I relplace the steering rod and gears. As iI mentioned it steers and handles well as it is

Emeraude wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:51 pm

.... As iI mentioned it steers and handles well as it is

YODA once said "if working, fix it not"

"from neutral there is 1 1/2 movement right and left before the wheels move a total of 3 inches."
Is movement = steering wheel turns confused with a total of 3inches
So how far does a wheel move to the left when the steering wheel is turned to the left 1 1/2 turns from the neutral position: 1 1/2 inches or 3 inches
I would define "slop" as no wheel movement when turning the steering wheel to some defined degree of rotation.

You said several years ago you went thru everything. But...how many miles are on that gear in those several years? How were the roads? Lots of factors that can wear out that otherwise "newer" rebuilt system "years ago". I would go thru and recheck everything carefully and go from there. Yes the little planetary gears in the gear case may need replaced, often they get wallered out on the pins. Another often overlooked item is the brass bushing down on the steering column bracket on the frame. It will allow more slop than you may think. The Pitman arm is another suspect along with its key. So check it all out this wi ter while you're not able to drive. You might be surprised at what you find.

A couple of weeks ago I noticed some shimmy in my front axle. There was some slop in the right side king pin bushing. I changed the bushing and the king pin was good and tight. I checked all the various ball joints but then I discovered the nut on the spindle arm on the drivers side was loose. Problem fixed.

It appears I was not clear on my question. The front end steering parts are tight ,all new parts. When I sit in the car and grasp the steering wheel I can move the steering wheel 1 1/2 either right or left before it starts to move the front wheels. As i said I do have the 4-1 gears and I was wondering if the 1 1/2 is too much? If so I would replace with the 5 -1 shaft and gears but if the there is not a issue (safety) I would leave it for now as the car handles very well

Emeraude wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:35 am

It appears I was not clear on my question. The front end steering parts are tight ,all new parts. When I sit in the car and grasp the steering wheel I can move the steering wheel 1 1/2 either right or left before it starts to move the front wheels. As i said I do have the 4-1 gears and I was wondering if the 1 1/2 is too much? If so I would replace with the 5 -1 shaft and gears but if the there is not a issue (safety) I would leave it for now as the car handles very well

Still a bit unclear - how are you measuring the steering wheel movement of 1 1/2 can't be turns since you can drive it but is that inches along the steering wheel or degrees? In one posting mentioned checking proper tire pressure besides steering parts. Here is a posting about 1/8 turn slop https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php? ... ing#p59739

Emeraude wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:35 am

It appears I was not clear on my question. The front end steering parts are tight ,all new parts. When I sit in the car and grasp the steering wheel I can move the steering wheel 1 1/2 either right or left before it starts to move the front wheels. As i said I do have the 4-1 gears and I was wondering if the 1 1/2 is too much? If so I would replace with the 5 -1 shaft and gears but if the there is not a issue (safety) I would leave it for now as the car handles very well

If the play you're experiencing is not a matter of gear wear, then putting in 5-1 gears will only increase the free movement of the steering wheel.

Check that your pitman arm is not loose on the steering shaft. A common problem. With your finger, touch both the nut at the bottom of the shaft and also the hub of the pitman arm. While your finger is bridging those 2 items, have someone run the steering wheel right & left fairly hard as you feel for relative motion between the nut & arm. You could also just remove the cotter pin from the nut and check it for tightness... If you find it to be loose, do NOT just tighten it up and call it good. Remove the nut & pitman arm and inspect the keyway in the steering shaft for wear, stretching & cracks. (When the keyway has stretched significantly, cracks can form at any of the 4 four corners.) Also, have a look at the woodruff key to see if it isn't worn, or just the wrong key! I've seen several instances of the wrong woodruff key being used. There are several standard key sizes that are similar and that has either been "good enough" for some folks in the past, or they just didn't know there are differences in similar appearing keys.

A tight taper alone will not adequately keep the pitman arm from slipping. It requires a well fit woodruff key.

1.5" movement at the wheel rim is not worth chasing. If the car steers well as is, just drive it.

Allan from down under.

I agree with Jerry, I have found the same problems. BE SURE AND CHECK THE PITMAN ARM CONNECTION ( IT NEEDS TO BE CORRECT AND TIGHT) . You mention that it takes 1-1/2 inches of steering wheel movement before the wheels turn. Make sure you are just checking slop and not winding up and loading the steering system. The steering shaft will actually wind up under load. You will need to load the system fully to check the pitman connection. If the connection checks out and you don't have shimmy and it drives well, I believe you could drive it safely as is.