back yard brake up grade

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Chuck Stevens
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back yard brake up grade

Post by Chuck Stevens » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:15 am

Has anyone tried to use a small car drum brake from the junk yard, on their own? I know there are several store bought set ups, to easy! I would like your ideas, thanks. I have a 21 roadster.

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Charlie B in N.J.
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Re: back yard brake up grade

Post by Charlie B in N.J. » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:21 am

I'm not sure how you'd find it in search through the older Forums but I recall someone using a foreign car hyd. brake setup.
Forget everything you thought you knew.

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Re: back yard brake up grade

Post by varmint » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:32 am

Our 1950 F1 has rear Ranger drum brakes (because it has the complete rear end). Some future buyers (you won't have it forever) won't care if it has C---- or some other foreign parts to make it work. But there are many potential buyers that want a Ford all Ford and for that reason I suggest trying Pinto, Escort, or Mustang parts.
Vern (Vieux Carre)

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John Warren
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Re: back yard brake up grade

Post by John Warren » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:44 am

I had thought about using trailer brakes because they are a manual type brake and they are available.
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
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Re: back yard brake up grade

Post by Scott_Conger » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:01 am

The following is not a rant, but merely my observations and opinions formed around those observations:

When I join Model T tours, I do so for the enjoyment and the safety of driving around cars which generally perform equally, or at least equivalent to mine, and in a fashion that would be typical for the period for when the car was produced. The times that I have been around T's with vastly superior brakes, my experience has been that those drivers often become "stupid" and drive in a manner that frequently puts drivers of stock cars at risk. It is no fun to be safely behind a T and suddenly realize that he has stopped instantly dead in his tracks from 30MPH to take a picture of a Unicorn or some such thing. While I leave a very large distance between me and someone in front (especially to let modern cars pass), it is my experience that the guy behind ME will tailgate relentlessly. You will find the same, and he is one day going to be meeting you in your back seat if you exercise your brakes too agressively on tour.

Hydraulic brakes will give vastly superior braking over mechanical brakes any day of the week. And so equipped, you will be as much a hazard to other Ts as any other modern car. In modern traffic you will still just be an annoyingly slow car with good brakes.

With the national clubs welcoming Ts with V-8 engines (I see absolutely no effort to discourage this), and modern brakes, or both, I feel less safe, AM less safe, and have fewer things in common with those owners than equip their cars thusly. It has taken my desire to tour with clubs down several notches since resto-mods have become more popular.

FWIW.
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Re: back yard brake up grade

Post by TonyB » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:02 am

I don’t agree with this statement

“With the national clubs welcoming Ts with V-8 engines (I see absolutely no effort to discourage this), and modern brakes, or both, I feel less safe,”

I have never seen any documentation encouraging V8 motors, while I know that many groups within the MTFCA specifically require a Model T block.
To some degree I do agree on the disc brake issue. The only defense I know is to leave big space to the T in front, even if YOU have to slow down to keep a comfortable gap.
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Re: back yard brake up grade

Post by MichaelPawelek » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:33 am

I am a bit old school and believe in only using period correct accessories on the Model T such as this auxiliary brake set up......

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Re: back yard brake up grade

Post by Loftbed » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:52 am

Well, I kind of understand what some of you are saying with regard to traveling (touring) among similarly equipped vehicles. However, I for one am not a tour participant (no club in Eugene) and pretty much exclusively do my T driving in the midst of everyday road hogs. SO, I greatly appreciate my latest purchase a 13 speedster with 4 wheel disc brakes. With my other 3 T's with stock brakes, I stick to mostly neighborhood streets. It's all relative, boys.

Rod
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Re: back yard brake up grade

Post by Gene_French » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:07 pm

Gentlemen:
Scott does make several interesting and I believe correct statements regarding cars with superior braking or for that matter power … we all need to consider the comfort and safety of other tour members and the general public while driving our antique cars … we have all experienced a way too close encounter … sometimes that is more than too close and can result in loss of life and property … choose our tour routes and speeds and times of travel carefully and enjoy the trip ...always an optimist ...Gene French


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Re: back yard brake up grade

Post by Tom Hicks » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:53 pm

I went the easy way, Sure Stop Disc Brakes. They just bolt on, everything is in the kit, and even I could do the install. And they work well.

But, to keep looking as period correct as possible, couldn't one convert the mechanical parking brakes on the large drum systems of '26 and '27 to juice. It seems like there should be a simple install kit to do that.
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Re: back yard brake up grade

Post by Norman Kling » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:13 pm

There are two conditions where good brakes are needed. One is going downhill. We have hills so steep that even in low gear you need some brakes to keep the speed down. In flat open country, it might not be needed. Usually when on a road trip the T is so much slower than the modern cars that there is no problem stopping when the car in front stops. However there is always the unexpected such as someone pulling in front of you or a child or animal running across the road. In the city, it is much harder to keep a safe following distance because someone will always squeeze in. The above are conditions where better brakes are needed. Another would be in case of a breakdown in the drivetrain which leaves a T with only standard brakes in free wheeling.
When driving on tours with the other Model T's it is important to leave space between the cars so that modern cars can pass and so that if the T in front should stop suddenly, it won't get rear ended. It costs a bit, but the vendors have several options available to improve the brakes. I use Rocky Mountain brakes because they look more period correct and with the transmission brake and parking brake working I can still stop when going backwards. The disk brakes are a very good way of stopping and if you don't mind the non period appearance, are a good way to go. Of course, they too have their problems such as a hydrolic leak, so good to keep the Ford brake system working for backup.
Norm


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Re: back yard brake up grade

Post by Dan Hatch » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:00 pm

I brought out an estate of a gentleman that made rear brakes for small drum cars using K car drums and shoes. These were made to be mech like a T was. He was working on a Hyd setup, but had not finished it. Was told the mech version worked fine. I have some of the stuff, may try post pics when I get a chance. Dan


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Re: back yard brake up grade

Post by SurfCityGene » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:15 pm

Brakes on a Model T???? Why.. They all go so slow you could just drag your feet and you'd stop?? I hope you all know that I'm kidding sort of!!

This subject has been well discussed and some vendors even sell aftermarket repo brake kits and newer style disc brakes as well. For years the topic of vendors selling brake kits was that of liability issues. Seems like that has died down somewhat.

With the passing of RDR better known as Ralph Ricks the topic of brakes has taken a back seat. Many of you remember how much he promoted theory of the importance of FRONT Wheel Brakes! He was right of course as we all know from the progression of modern car design.

I'm posting a link to an earlier thread that shows his brakes from a Metro and also some pictures of my Torpedo with the FOUR wheel brakes that I made from copies of the Big Four and the McNearney that were available in the 1920's especially for the Model T's.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/33 ... 1380142985

I guess they had a need for better braking even back then when the roads and other cars much different than we have today?

You can find a lot of info about Model T brakes using Google and include MTFCA in your search.
1912 Torpedo Roadster


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Re: back yard brake up grade

Post by Chuck Stevens » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:17 am

Norman Kling wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:13 pm
There are two conditions where good brakes are needed. One is going downhill. We have hills so steep that even in low gear you need some brakes to keep the speed down. In flat open country, it might not be needed. Usually when on a road trip the T is so much slower than the modern cars that there is no problem stopping when the car in front stops. However there is always the unexpected such as someone pulling in front of you or a child or animal running across the road. In the city, it is much harder to keep a safe following distance because someone will always squeeze in. The above are conditions where better brakes are needed. Another would be in case of a breakdown in the drivetrain which leaves a T with only standard brakes in free wheeling.
When driving on tours with the other Model T's it is important to leave space between the cars so that modern cars can pass and so that if the T in front should stop suddenly, it won't get rear ended. It costs a bit, but the vendors have several options available to improve the brakes. I use Rocky Mountain brakes because they look more period correct and with the transmission brake and parking brake working I can still stop when going backwards. The disk brakes are a very good way of stopping and if you don't mind the non period appearance, are a good way to go. Of course, they too have their problems such as a hydrolic leak, so good to keep the Ford brake system working for backup.
Norm
Normam is right on track with my problem. There are long down hill stretches in up-state ny, and after having a 'hill' experience you want to have some kind of back up. I will look in the pull-a-part for a small drum set up for the rear, thanks to all for your ideas, Chuck.


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Re: back yard brake up grade

Post by SurfCityGene » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:00 pm

Chuck, If you looked at RDR's Nash Metro brakes and are interested I do have a few extra parts. He used a standard VW bug master cylinder.
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Re: back yard brake up grade

Post by Scott_Conger » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:17 pm

Going down the hill in the same gear you'd go up, pretty much solves braking runaways.
Scott Conger

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Re: back yard brake up grade

Post by HaroldRJr » Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:49 pm

To add a bit to what Surfcitygene said above, there is a pretty sizable Nash Metropolitan club, and I would think that those guys would be considerable help in locating the parts you'd need,.....harold


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Re: back yard brake up grade

Post by babychadwick » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:39 am

After driving thousands of miles with stock T brakes If you know the limitations of your car downhill is not a problem. As far as defensive driving no matter the brakes you have it is dependent on the driver.

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Re: back yard brake up grade

Post by Kaiser » Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:23 am

I can see these coming back in fashion :D
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Chuck Stevens
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Re: back yard brake up grade

Post by Chuck Stevens » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:13 pm

Surfcitygene wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:00 pm
Chuck, If you looked at RDR's Nash Metro brakes and are interested I do have a few extra parts. He used a standard VW bug master cylinder.
I just talked to a great guy in PA,(THE metro man), and he has everything I need, some new some used. He's close enough that I can pick-up the parts myself. Now all we need is some nice weather, thanks for your help, Chuck.


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Re: back yard brake up grade

Post by SurfCityGene » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:37 pm

Chuck, I must forewarn you if you install those Metro brakes you will have to insist that your passengers buckle up their seat belt in case you do a panic stop!!
This was RDR's favorite demonstration of his brake system. I can tell you there isn't much to hold onto that would prevent you from ending up in the windshield if your weren't buckled into the seat! Maybe that's a discussion for another thread? I'm a believer...

Good Luck and Please make sure your weld job looks better than the one Ralph Ricks had on his PCup/Speedster.
1912 Torpedo Roadster


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Re: back yard brake up grade

Post by Mindless Automaton » Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:54 am

Someone told me that the cast drums on their small drum ford were from a hillman hunter / dodge dart i think it was sold as stateside.
Use standard T shoes with lining. The cast grips & deals with heat better than pressed steel apparently.

It was an upgrade and only required drilling some holes and maybe the center hole machined out. Can machine the cast lip off too.

Seems to work well for them.

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