MTFCA Forum

I recently purchased a 1926 T Coupe and the head appears to be aluminum. The only markings I have been able to see are “VTH-1000H” and “20-27”. Could anyone tell me anything about this head?
I’m working through the Coupe a little at a time. She starts and drives well. I plan to change the motor oil this weekend and to top off the antifreeze. Perhaps I should change the coolant also.
I haven’t been able to locate the 600 wt. locally. Does anyone have any suggestions where I should order it or perhaps a different name for the same thing?

Thanks.

The only place you want 600 wt oil in a stock T is the rear axle. Some vendors carry it, Snyder's has it at https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/Prod ... on-3-speed

Engine oil is a totally different issue with many opinions. I use 10w30 or whatever Costco has on sale. With no filter, change it annually or every 500 miles whichever comes first. If you spend a lot of time on dirt roads, change it more often. My opinion, others may differ.

As the car is new to you, I would change the coolant to a 50/50 mix of the old style green antifreeze.

Sorry, no help on the head, a picture might help.

Accessory aluminum head would be a "hi-compression", if you want to call it that - about 5.5/6 to 1 comp. ratio - does increase pulling power especially in a closed car.

You have a high compression head of modern manufacture. I think the one you've got is referred to as a "Reeder" head, as made by Ralph Reeder. Not totally sure however. The other option is a "Z" head. It would have a "Z" cast in the top, just behind the water outlet flange. Either one is excellent!

DIYer wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:46 am

I haven’t been able to locate the 600 wt. locally. Does anyone have any suggestions where I should order it or perhaps a different name for the same thing?

Thanks.

I have good seals, so I use 90wt hypoid.

600wt is horrible stuff, but if you insist, it is Steam Chest Oil. Its what they had back then. It was injected into steam to lube inside the cylinders.

big2bird wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:05 pm

DIYer wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:46 am

I haven’t been able to locate the 600 wt. locally. Does anyone have any suggestions where I should order it or perhaps a different name for the same thing?

Thanks.

I have good seals, so I use 90wt hypoid.

600wt is horrible stuff, but if you insist, it is Steam Chest Oil. Its what they had back then. It was injected into steam to lube inside the cylinders.

I've had same actual 600W, (a.k.a. #2 Steam Cylinder Oil). It's very thick and pours very slowly. I have also had some of the "600W" sold by the T suppliers. I kinda doubt it's actually 600W. I think it's more like 140 gear lube. Just my take on it.

Actual 600W oil has a viscosity rating of around 275. Not sure why it's "horrible stuff" as T differentials AND Ruckstells ran many thousands (some tens of thousands) of miles using it... how many multitudes of T rear ends died over the decades from using what was put in there from the factory and remained in there for 50 years?

Susanne wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:30 pm

. how many multitudes of T rear ends died over the decades from using what was put in there from the factory and remained in there for 50 years?

All of them.

Ever pulled one apart and said " good enough."

Lubricants are light years ahead of what they were.

Race engines used castor bean oil. I would not use that either.

walber wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 21, 2020 12:15 pm

Sorry, no help on the head, a picture might help.

Walber, As you suggested I have added two photos and there are more marking on the head that of which I was not aware.

If my photos changes anything, please do let me know. I appreciate everyone's help.

DIYer

Not a Z head, and doesn't look like any Reeder head. My hunch is VTH are the initials of the maker.

I have seen them before, had heard Reeder got in trouble for casting with FORD name on them so he went to this style?

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:12 pm

I've had same actual 600W, (a.k.a. #2 Steam Cylinder Oil). It's very thick and pours very slowly. I have also had some of the "600W" sold by the T suppliers. I kinda doubt it's actually 600W. I think it's more like 140 gear lube. Just my take on it.

Correct. 600W is black. The stuff Lang's sells is hypoid.

here is the real 600w. philip

Philip wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:40 am

here is the real 600w. philip

Yup. Closer to roof mastic than oil.

I run gear oil. 85/140 90 wt would be fine.I figure that current oil is better that what they had. Many trans-axles run ATF. I wonder why people are pushing the 600w. To me it seems like putting tar in thar.

The lubrication requirements for the differential, rear axle, are totally different that what is need for the engine/transmission. There are many many discussions on the subject. Both have numerous recommendations from well qualified Model T owners based on their personal use.

Differential Lubrication - This is a past thread that discuses the pros & cons of various recommendations https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php? ... 0wt#p93038

Engine/Transmission Lubrication - This a past thread that discuses pros & cons of various recommendations https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php? ... le#p127663
Your choice of single or multi viscosity oil is dependent on seasonal temperatures where one lives and drives.
Synthetic oil requires less oil changes per miles driven than conventional oil and is therefore better if you intend to drive many miles or less miles over a long period of time.
Detergent vs Non-detergent oil. Detergent oil puts engine deposits in suspension so they could be filtered out (T's have no filter). Non-detergent oil caused deposits to stick to the inside surfaces of the engine. Since you are planning to add/change oil you should drop the inspection pan to see what has been used and remove any sludge buildup. Some say that putting Detergent oil in a engine that had been using non-detergent oil will loosen any build up and clog things. Maybe its a cheep way t o clean the internals with frequent oil changes.
Avoid engine oil that contains any additive that is magnetic if you have a magneto.

Here we go again

I use the stuff lang sells

I found a paper in the interweb that gives a nice comparison between the different ways the viscosity of oils are given, remember there are different ways of rating the oil for different uses, as in gearcases, engines etc.
The 600w is a industrial gearcase oil rating, which compares to a 140w to 160w gearbox oil, as can be seen in the list.
Hope this helps clear up some of the confusion about the ratings

That is a great chart... thanks for posting it! (I'd heard 600W was viscosity-wise 275, where it looks more like 150...) I know firsthand you can order (through jobbers) whatever lube you want (as long as they make it and is in 55 gallon drum batches) - we used to do that on the bridges, I'm just not sure how long it would take to go through a 55 gallon drum of oil one pumpkin at a time.

https://petroleumservicecompany.com/mob ... llon-pail/

Comparing that SAE chart to what Henry used is like looking up nutritional facts for Coca Cola, and seeing corn syrup instead of cocaine.

The original 600wt was black tar like stuff, that you had to warm up to pour, and contained raw canola oil as well. Think of old machinery like mining equipment with open gear boxes covered in black grease. That is what they had.

Using 90 wt -140 wt oil, like GL-3 or 4 that is compatable with brass is fine. No need to buy at a specialty store.

This is getting sad... IF you want to run 90W in your pumpkin, that's your choice. If I run 275W in mine, that's my choice, I actually have worked with 600W Steam oil on drawbridge gearboxes, so I actually am familiar with what ford put in his differentials (and while thick as goo, is neither solid nor, from my firsthand experience black)... you can argue with that until the sun goes down, but the bottom line is if you want to put 85W oil in yor pumpkin, it's your choice.

Arguing that "you're right and I'm wrong" may make you feel better, but honest to Godfrey, it's all not a big deal. And I'm not going to argue that putting something other than what Ford said to put in there is "right"... it's your 100 year old gear case, and you can run whatever you want in it.

I'll stick to my remaining 2 1/3 gallons of thicker than molasses amber-ish goo, and when it runs out, if Shell can't supply a 5 gallon pail of 600W, then I may have to rethink it. But the one thing I won't do is argue "Me=good, you=bad", because if you're convinced 90W Hypois is the same as or better than 600W Cylinder oil, then nothing I will say will change your mind.

Happy thanksgiving... and be thankful we have recovered a TON of historical evidence those 40 years ago wish they had.

Susanne, I apologize. I have my opinion, and you have yours, but I was in no way telling you what to do.

I believe the modern equivalent of 600 wt is 250 wt. Yes, it is thick stuff and kinda sticky too. I use it to lube the flip top oilers. Never tried it in my rear end since I have a Ruckstell and use 75W-140 in there.

Just some extra clarification on the chart i posted, the only thing that it compares is viscosity, other characteristics of the oil is not taken in consideration i.e. the 'stickyness' of the oil or the capacity to absorb moisture or protect against corrosion.
Another important feature of the oil in a T or TT rearend is the compatability with the bronze parts in there !
The use of cylinder oil for instance may have drawbacks : although it may be of the right viscosity, cylinder oil is intended as a total loss oil, it does not have to survive long use, so might have a short service life in your pumpkin.
The chart only gives you an idea how to compare between older and/or modern ways to classify oil viscosity.
A modern gearcase oil of around 145w may do well in your rearend if the 600w is not available but be sure to check for its compatability wth bronze..
But to be sure, the wrong oil is always preferable to no oil

Kaiser wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:15 am

Just some extra clarification on the chart i posted, the only thing that it compares is viscosity, other characteristics of the oil is not taken in consideration i.e. the 'stickyness' of the oil or the capacity to absorb moisture or protect against corrosion.
Another important feature of the oil in a T or TT rearend is the compatability with the bronze parts in there !
The use of cylinder oil for instance may have drawbacks : although it may be of the right viscosity, cylinder oil is intended as a total loss oil, it does not have to survive long use, so might have a short service life in your pumpkin.
The chart only gives you an idea how to compare between older and/or modern ways to classify oil viscosity.
A modern gearcase oil of around 145w may do well in your rearend if the 600w is not available but be sure to check for its compatability wth bronze..
But to be sure, the wrong oil is always preferable to no oil

Thank you Leo. As I recall, bronze compatibility is determined by the sulfur content. I "believe" they just refined it out on all GL3 and GL4 now.

Maybe 40 years ago I was at Glen Chaffin's shop discussing this very thing. A customer walked in, overheard us, and introduced himself as a petrochemical engineer at Standard Oil.
He filled us in on the history of the 600wt oil, it's use, its old and new composition, and really it's intended use, as people wanted to know.
Bottom line, he said he would never recommend it's use in The T rear end, as there was now far better lubricants to use.

Years later, I hosted two friends from the Netherlands, big Corvette guys, and I found they were petrochemical engineers with Royal Dutch Shell.
They explained to me why straight 30 or 40 wt oil is superior to multi grade oil. That would be another great thread.

Thank you everyone who replied to my questions, I appreciate your posts. If I learn anymore about my manifold, I will do my best to post my finding here.

Old thread,
But was the head ever identified?

Early Reeder Head, look inside the water outlet, head turned over Reeder will be cast in the head

Just FYI, I've been running 600 steam cylinder oil for about 20 years in the rear end and auxilliary transmissions. I buy it in the 5 gallon tub from Western States Oil co. They don't sell it in smaller containers. going way back, I always used 140 and I had a Muncie transmission that consumed a lot a lot of oil so I called Western States Oil in San Leandro, CA. to see if I could get bulk 140, and the guy asked "what is it for?" When I finished telling him, he said 90 and 140 are not good for bronze bushings, it eats into them. You need 600 steam cylinder oil and it doesn't hurt bronze, we sell it in 5 gallon tubs. My previous association with 600 was what I ordered from one of our T parts suppliers and yes it poured like molasses and seeing that I refused to use it as I thought "that stuff is way too thick, it'll never lubricate well enough and get in all the nooks and crannies, especially at the speeds and distances that we travel today." I mentioned that to the Western States guy and he assured me the the 600 steam cylinder oil that they sell is not like molasses. He was right. That was 20+ years ago and it has served me well. and I no longer see traces of bronze in my Tranny or rear end "grease"/oil.

Ed aka #4

Reeder is the only one to make a high compression low head that I have found.

The only difference is the height and number on the lower rear left side.

When I was working on Henrietta to return her to the road after a 63 year slumber, checking the diff oil was clearly on the list of jobs to do. No oil ran out of the plug hole, none could be dipped 1/2" below the hole. I used a wire to delve a little deeper. It came out with a thick, brown, smelly grease! I can't drain it, can't top it up, so I have left it be until I have reason to tear it down. I will certainly be interested in what I find!

Allan from down under.