MTFCA Forum

Part of the problem with buying parts is sometimes you need to figure out what's missing.

In the case of my '17 short block, it's the main bearing bolts. All 6 of them. Gone, finished, vamoosed. I have the main caps, I have the block, but no way to attach them together!

What did Ford use in the way of length, strength, and steel? Is there a modern equivalent? And (because of the eventual plans for this block) is there a way to strengthen it?

I'l talk about boring and oversized main caps later (for a "severely" oversized crank). for now this is a start so I can start putting pieces together.

Thanks and happy Thanksgiving!

I would suggest you check with Chaffins Garage and Langs or Snyders. Someone must carry new bolts or have some used ones. There is also Model T Haven in Missouri which has used Model T parts. And also post on the forum that you need the parts, and even check with members of your local club. Someone is bound to have a set of bolts.
As to the oversize crank? What kind of crankshaft are you using? If it is a Model T crank which has been re-ground, it would be undersize and you would need to pour babbit in the bearings and caps and cut to fit the undersize crank. If it is an oversize crank it would have to be something such as a Model A crank and a lot of modification to the block would be needed.
Norm

If you need T bolts you can email me. I have a bucket of them.
If you are using an A crank or stroker Scat. You need bigger main caps that have to be bored and have special bolts. Dan

I have used “grade 8” fine thread bolts and nuts for all my “odd ball” T engines. 1/2” diameter of course. I will get you a length later today(assuming you are doing a “oversized crank”. For the 3rd main I grind off a flat on the head. I don’t bother with cotter pins, I use a torque wrench (just like on anything built in the ‘30’s and on)

I have a coffee can full of them. You shouldn't have a problem. Some of the early ones have a different shaped head.

If you are installing a “oversized crank” then I have used 5” long for the rear main and 7” long for the front and centre.

Wow, THANK YOU!!! THis is what I was hoping to discover...

BYW - the crank is one out of a Wills Saint Claire V8... MASSIVE journals on this thing... that happen to match the saddles on a T block. And since they stopped production in '27, it's an "era authentic" modification... (The heart of the goose... take THAT, Chevrolet... )

I've seen a couple photos of this conversion done, and was told someone had a hard pulling hillclimber (I think) that had one done, but details (so far) are few and far between...

Talking to my machine shop professor and guru (who also plays with the big boys at Bonneville) I need a point of reference off the stock caps/crank/block before I go a'machining, ergo the need for bolts, but I REALLY appreciate Les' input on this... Also the WIlls ran modern inserts and pressure oil (they were about 40+ years in advance of most anything back then)...

I want to take my time, build it well, and do it right.

I used to have a friend who had a Wills St.Claire crank in his T.

I know you may not know, but any info you have would be appreciated. I know there's no way it's close to being a direct drop in, but anything I can find out helps. Still trying to figure out rods, etc... I could have them built, but man, that's 'spensive, unless it's the only answer.

I'm figuring that the mains spacing of a T and a Wills can't be just coincidence... they just match up too perfect. Almost as if... hmmm... Wills had some association with Ford?? (I wonder what he'd say if he knew Ford was still using his stylized Ford script over a century later...)

Anyway, I'm kinda honored to have this thing, and hope to do it justice!

Connecting rods;
Recently I was working on the 2up 2down T engine project and realized that it was going to need “custom” connecting rods. Crower quoted me about $1,500.00 for a set of 4, which considered fair and reasonable.
I hope this helps

Les Schubert wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:12 pm

Connecting rods;
Recently I was working on the 2up 2down T engine project and realized that it was going to need “custom” connecting rods. Crower quoted me about $1,500.00 for a set of 4, which considered fair and reasonable.
I hope this helps

Thanks for the heads up and the lead!!! Since I'll need to run offset rod journals on the motor, unless I can find a set that fits (cue roaring laugh track here), they'll have to be hand-rolled anyway, and 15 sounds pretty reasonable. What did you determine the stroke for the 2x2 crank and the rod length was? I'm wondering if I can "piggyback" on the work you did for that...

Just don't tell the other half!

Unfortunately I have decided to walk away from that project as there were more issues to solve than I felt I wanted to deal with!!
Kevin Pharis has agreed to take it on!!
Fill out this form and you should be able to get a quote!!
https://www.crower.com/forms/connectingrod/

One of my friends had to have a custom set of forged rods made for an airplane engine he was rebuilding. They were made by a company in Brazil as I recall, and Mike said they were absolutely beautiful. Plus, they were about have the price that Crower is quoting. I'll email Mike and ask him for contact info and report back to you.

One of my friends had to have a custom set of forged rods made for an airplane engine he was rebuilding. They were made by a company in Brazil as I recall, and Mike said they were absolutely beautiful. Plus, they were about half the price that Crower is quoting. I'll email Mike and ask him for contact info and report back to you.

Thank you, thank you, and thank you!!!

Susanne,

I finally made contact with my friend Mike Grimes, who had some custom connecting rods made a couple years ago. Good news and bad news:

First the good news. The Company was Saemz Performance, in Argentina. https://www.saenzperformance.com
Mike said the parts were absolutely first-class and the people were very professional and easy to work with.

But, the bad news. I was mistaken on the price. By a lot. The price I remembered was per rod, not for a set of 4. All told, Mike said the set of 4 cost a bit over $2000.

Dick

I used 1/2 inch #8 bolts and nuts. I did this a long time ago and should have used bolts at least 1/2 inch longer. I did get 3 turns on the nuts though and all has been well for at least 10 years. There are nuts below the plate holding the front main. (I hope the picture opens)

The bottom end of my DO Fronty sprint car engine. Wills Saint Claire V8 crank in a Model T block. Bronze main caps with steel reinforcement plates. Tube rods with full floating pistons and aluminum buttons pressed into the pins.

It looks like the helical gear on the crank (not sure if it's for a distributor drive or oil pump or the OHV valve system drive?) was removed, and the journals were turned down - to keep the rods centered in the bores, I'm assuming? I'd love to get the specs on your rods, as it's looking like I'll have to have a set made.

(Bye bye bank account! --lol--)

I'm actually thinking of something like modern press-interference fit pins, tho another option would be something like what Honda did with their racing motors 50 years ago and using circlips. I want to make sure whatever I put in there doesn't decide to come apart...

Interesting about the bronze caps; I can understand the steel plate backing them up tho ... last thing one wants is to have something come apart like that. One thing I'm curious about is if the stock main bolt locations are OK, if there's enough clearance to do that, or if they'll have to be re-located outbound of the original locations. I'm also guessing that the holes in the rod caps are for oil feed lines? My block has 3 drilled out bores at each of the main saddles that are threaded on the outer ends... I *think* the intest was to feed pressure oil; regardless, unless I can find a reason not to I'll probably follow that lead.

I need to check the stroke on the crank against the stock one I have to figure out clearances, etc. The one thing I noticed right off was the heft of that beast compared to a "normal" T crank. Maybe a "mere" BB Rajo head isn't enough for the crank?

Anyway, thanks, Mike, for the picture and the info...

Sus

1.625” main bearings I find to be the maximum size main bearings that can be fit using T bolt spacing.
The bronze main caps don’t worry me!!
I have bought a number of sets of rods from crower and they have always delivered quality!!
I have tried the press in wrist pins and I wouldn’t go there again. Consider Teflon buttons.
I have drilled a number of crankshafts for pressure oil.
1. Use a good quality “Bridgeport” style drill-mill
2. Buy a NEW top quality 5/33” drill bit!
3. Make a ACCURATE drawing of what you are doing.
4. Use plenty of lubricant on the drill.
5. From your drawing you will know just how long the hole is. Start the hole with a “centre bit”. NEVER drill right out the far side. As you approach the end of the hole keep a finger on the spot where the hole will finish. Stop when you feel the steel start to “push out”. Then flip the crank over and drill back using the centre bit. If you drill out you greatly increase the chance of breaking the drill bit in the hole!!

These are most of the things that have come to mind!!

All the best

5/32” drill bit!!

Susanne- we make 1/2 x 5 and 1/2 x 7 Grade 8 + main bearing bolts with centerless ground shanks for use with our 1 1/2" tall heavy main caps. You can contact me at dmcgearsATyahooDOTcom if you would like more information. thanks, Dan

Email sent - thank you, sir!