MTFCA Forum

Saw a video removing a starter from a car with magneto. They removed the Bendix first and then the starter. They said you should remove the Bendix before removing the starter in a car with a magneto. My car came with an Atwater Kent distributor. Would I be safe to just remove the complete starter from my car?

If the mag ring has been removed, yes, if the mag ring is still there, no.

The addition of a distributor is no indicator if the mag ring is there or not.

The simple fact REMAINS that if you attempt to remove the starter before you remove the bendix you will NOT succeed since the bendix will hit the magneto winding and you will not be able to pry it or shove it or hammer it to get it out. You MUST remove the bendix cover (4 screws) and then remove the bendix which then will allow you to remove the 4 bolts holding the starter and it will simple come right out the front side of the transmission cover. No harm done then. If you have the means of pulling your motor out of the car then go ahead and "attempt" to prove us wrong but once you damage the magneto winding ring you will find that it isn't simply a case of it not working but rather the windings will most likely get tangled up in the magnets and flywheel and you will have to pull the motor to then remove what is left of the mag ring and possibly the magnets as well. Please take the advice you have been given and abandon the idea of removing the starter if the bendix is still in place on the starter shaft.

Hope this helps.

Thank you. Will pull the Bendix first. Looks like no big deal. I have back trouble getting in there. Will get help and do this right.

Piewagon wrote: ↑

Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:38 pm

The simple fact REMAINS that if you attempt to remove the starter before you remove the bendix you will NOT succeed since the bendix will hit the magneto winding and you will not be able to pry it or shove it or hammer it to get it out. You MUST remove the bendix cover (4 screws) and then remove the bendix which then will allow you to remove the 4 bolts holding the starter and it will simple come right out the front side of the transmission cover. No harm done then. If you have the means of pulling your motor out of the car then go ahead and "attempt" to prove us wrong but once you damage the magneto winding ring you will find that it isn't simply a case of it not working but rather the windings will most likely get tangled up in the magnets and flywheel and you will have to pull the motor to then remove what is left of the mag ring and possibly the magnets as well. Please take the advice you have been given and abandon the idea of removing the starter if the bendix is still in place on the starter shaft.

Hope this helps.

Will do. Thanks again!

The Ford Service Manual shows how to remove the starter from the car without removing the bendix at all.

Not seeing that in my Ford service book Will, remove bendix then withdraw starter.

Ford Service Manual dated 1926, par 953, Removing Starting Motor from Car, states to remove the bendix cover and bendix.

I have back problems and was hoping for a simple, quick answer. HOWEVER as most of you agree, I will remove the Bendix first, Thank you for your help.

You'll need a extra long screwdriver to remove the screws that hold the cover. You might find it easier to do it from underneath. Removing the Bendix is easy, just be careful not to lose the woodruff key. Also - when reinstalling, be absolutely sure the woodruff key is properly seated.

My back isn't the greatest but I was able to do it. It is also an easy procedure to talk a willing (and more supple volunteer) through

I am not incorrect in what I said....

If you read paragraph 513 in the FORD SERVICE MANUAL, you can actually remove the starter and bendix as a COMPLETE UNIT.

I've actually read the book from cover to cover, so I knew it was in there.

Chapter XXX ((Model T Ford Service)
Starter Motor Overhaul
953 To Remove the starting motor from the car it is first necessary to disconnect the starting motor to switch cable (See "C" Fig. 35). Lift out mat and floor boards and remove bendix cover and bendix as described in Pars. 894, 896 and 897; the four motor mounting screws are then run out and the starting motor withdrawn.

Chapter XII
Replacing Transmission Bands
(Old Design)
513 Raise front end of the transmission cover and insert a block of wood approximately 2" thick between cover and crankcase (See "A" Fig. 300). This premits removal of starting motor and gasket "B" and Bendix "C", which can be lifted out as one unit. (Fig. 300 shows the block of wood on the starter side between the hogs head and crankcase)

953 would be for pulling the starter without removing the hogs head when quick change bands are installed (or just removing the starter).
513 would be for removing when old style bands were used and hogs head was coming off anyway to replace the bands. The key is the 2" block of wood under the corner to raise the hogs head up so the bendix could pass by the magneto coil ring.

Again... it can be done. Do I recommend it? No, I do not.

But....it CAN be done.

Along the way Ford moved from the old design to a newer design for easier starter removal as shown in the manual. I’m glad he did. it’s amazing what’s in the manual when we read ALL of it.
I had forgotten what’s in the Old design section since my 3 T’s are the newer design cars.

Now Will, of cause lifting the hogs head up will let you remove the starter as a whole but no one is going to do that just to remove a starter, are they? let alone replace it the same way That would be a special kind of stupid

I said the book showed a way to remove it as a whole unit.

Sick and tired of people saying there is no way to do it other than remove the bendix. It was not my intent to tell him to remove it one way or the other... but for you people to just sit here and say that the book doesn’t say but to do it one way, is erroneous.

Now, if you’re calling me stupid, I demand you come to my house and say it to my face.

If not, then just let it go.

Unless you need to remove the hogs head, it would be harder than removing the bendix. Also it is hard to seal the hogs head to transmission and if it doesn't leak, leave it in place.
The one screw on the bendix cover which is toward the right is the hardest one to replace. If your bendix cover has slotted holes for the screws, you can start that screw first and slide the cover under it. You will need a long screwdriver especially to get that one on. Do not lose any of those 4 screws because they have an unusual size thread and hard to find replacements.
Norm

Will, I didn't say it wasn't in the service book, I said that I was not seeing it, as for calling you stupid, that would only apply to you if you are considering that removing the starter in that manor was a good idea! or recommend it to some one, as for a face to face debate on the topic, sure just pay for my plane ticket

IM WITH --U-- WILL--LETUM NOT PULL THE BENDIX LET--UM--FERGIT TO TAKE THE KEY WAY AFTER THEY WRECK THE MAG COIL,TRYING TO WIGGLE THE BOLT HEADS AROUND AND AFTER ALL THAT FIXIN THERE WAY, THAT KEY THAT THEY FERGOT WILL DESTROY THE TRANSMISSION --WHEN IT DROPS IN AND STICKS TO A MAGNET..THEN FLINGS OFF AND THAT LITTLE BAS%$$^d will destroy every thing under the hogs head, do your t a favor, remove the bendix and before removing the 4 bolts on the starter pluck that key way off and put it somewhere safe...when putting things back,put at least two bolts to hold starter then install the key and bendix-- if it drops this way it will hit the floor..

Richard G wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:01 pm

IM WITH --U-- WILL--LETUM NOT PULL THE BENDIX LET--UM--FERGIT TO TAKE THE KEY WAY AFTER THEY WRECK THE MAG COIL,TRYING TO WIGGLE THE BOLT HEADS AROUND AND AFTER ALL THAT FIXIN THERE WAY, THAT KEY THAT THEY FERGOT WILL DESTROY THE TRANSMISSION --WHEN IT DROPS IN AND STICKS TO A MAGNET..THEN FLINGS OFF AND THAT LITTLE BAS%$$^d will destroy every thing under the hogs head, do your t a favor, remove the bendix and before removing the 4 bolts on the starter pluck that key way off and put it somewhere safe...when putting things back,put at least two bolts to hold starter then install the key and bendix-- if it drops this way it will hit the floor..

I turn the keyway of my starter shaft up when I install the bendix.

Kerry wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:20 pm

Will, I didn't say it wasn't in the service book, I said that I was not seeing it, as for calling you stupid, that would only apply to you if you are considering that removing the starter in that manor was a good idea! or recommend it to some one, as for a face to face debate on the topic, sure just pay for my plane ticket

Ha ha ha. I don't have that kinda cash

Will_Vanderburg wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:53 am

I am not incorrect in what I said....
If you read paragraph 513 in the FORD SERVICE MANUAL, you can actually remove the starter and bendix as a COMPLETE UNIT.
I've actually read the book from cover to cover, so I knew it was in there.

Old thread supports the process "T513, describes a technique of raising the front end of the transmission cover and inserting a 2" block of wood between the cover and crankcase to permit removal of the Starter and Bendix as one unit. "
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/59 ... 1459453224
The alternative process to not disturb the transmission cover gaskets is to slide it out - but requires removing the Bendix for clearance.

Several different processes to do it - just depends on what other maintenance is being done at the same time.

When you guys have your face-to-face debate, remember to mask up and maintain six feet.

Will_Vanderburg wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:53 am

I am not incorrect in what I said....

If you read paragraph 513 in the FORD SERVICE MANUAL, you can actually remove the starter and bendix as a COMPLETE UNIT.

I've actually read the book from cover to cover, so I knew it was in there.

Sounds like a plan! BTW, here's how I drain my radiator...
Sorry, couldn't resist.

It's all good. LOL