‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
User avatar

Topic author
George House
Posts: 739
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:25 pm
First Name: George
Last Name: House
Location: Northern Caldwell County TX
MTFCA Number: 115
MTFCA Life Member: YES

‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Post by George House » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:36 am

Howdy Forum Friends,
I’ve recently been helping a neighbor by providing parts for his restoration of a ‘26 Enclosed Cab TT. At our last meeting I casually asked if the engine serial number matched the frame number. When he went home and checked; sure enough, they matched. Now I’m familiar with TV gearheads like Wayne Carini and the ‘Whats my Car Worth’ boys making a big to-do on matching numbers on 50 year old muscle cars and rare sports cars. But to what extent will it positively affect the value of our T s?
One of the biggest problems with today’s youth is they’ve never known the fear of hearing leather being rapidly pulled through seven Wrangler belt loops.


Joss
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:46 am
First Name: Joss
Last Name: Sanderson
Location: Tucson AZ

Re: ‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Post by Joss » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:45 am

Not really. Only in 26-27 was a number usually stamped on the frame. Am sure others will disagree, but in 30 years and owning a few 26-27 Ts the subject only came up once. I went looking on my pickup - nothing stamped.

User avatar

Ruxstel24
Posts: 1866
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:25 am
First Name: Dave
Last Name: Hanlon
Location: NE Ohio
MTFCA Number: 50191
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: ‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Post by Ruxstel24 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 9:59 am

I don't think much value is added.
Most T guys are not that concerned with matching numbers...


Tom Hicks
Posts: 761
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:07 pm
First Name: Thomas
Last Name: Hicks
Location: Chesterfield, VA
MTFCA Number: 32518

Re: ‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Post by Tom Hicks » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:17 am

If I wanted a "correct" vehicle, I would want either matching numbers if available that year, or an engine whose serial number was correct for when the car was manufactured.

If a vehicle is just a fun driver, I don't care about numbers.
Technology, the solution to all of our problems... and the cause of most of them.

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 2561
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: ‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Post by Steve Jelf » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:44 am

There are no matching numbers until near the end of Model T production. The term apparently is a big deal in the world of muscle cars, but not so much with Model T's. It's nice if your 26-27 Ford has its original engine, but I doubt that will bring any extra dough when you sell it.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring

User avatar

Charlie B in N.J.
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:40 am
First Name: CHARLIE
Last Name: BRANCA
Location: Brick N.J.
MTFCA Number: 28967
Board Member Since: 2010

Re: ‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Post by Charlie B in N.J. » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:48 am

Man that really doesn't seem to matter a bit does it? As stated the only ones to match anything on are the stamped frame years. Out of 3 I only had 1 that was "not quite right". A '23 Touring with a '27 engine in it. Not only didn't care I was glad of it !
Forget everything you thought you knew.


rickd
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:56 pm
First Name: Rick
Last Name: Duquette
Location: Grand Forks, North Dakota
MTFCA Number: 21848
MTFCI Number: 22173
Board Member Since: 2015

Re: ‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Post by rickd » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:16 am

I owned a 27 Tudor with matching engine and frame numbers and presently own a 27 PU and 26 Runabout with engine and frame numbers that do not match. For me the matching numbers on the Tudor provided an enjoyment of having a car that was historically correct and for the most part original. When I sold the Tudor recently the buyer was also pleased with the same number feature but it did not provide any big increase in value. To me each Model T is individually special for various reasons and I get just as much enjoyment from the cars I own w/o the matching numbers.


Colin Mavins
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:36 pm
First Name: Colin
Last Name: Mavins
Location: Winnipeg Canada
MTFCA Number: 1853

Re: ‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Post by Colin Mavins » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:44 am

The early cars the engine and dash plate match until the production numbers took of and then there is separation.

User avatar

RustyFords
Posts: 1188
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:16 am
First Name: Don
Last Name: Allen
Location: Houston, TX
MTFCA Number: 50001

Re: ‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Post by RustyFords » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:48 am

It's become sort of a joke in the Corvette, Mustang, muscle car circles for a while now...nearly every car you see is a "numbers matching", rare, SS, etc, ad nauseum.

Thankfully, most Model T's have no way of matching engine numbers to frames and bodies. Otherwise, we'd probably be dealing with the same sort of people...people who aren't pleasant to be around.
1924 Touring

User avatar

Jugster
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:41 pm
First Name: Bob
Last Name: Coiro
Location: Commack, NY
Board Member Since: 2009

Re: ‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Post by Jugster » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:15 pm

There's nothing like the satisfaction one gets from opening the hood of a numbers-matching car with magnifying glass & flashlight in hand, reading off the numbers on the engine, then reading the numbers stamped into the data-plate and then crawling under the car and reading the numbers on the transmission—and getting that incomparable feeling you get when the numbers all match. It never gets old. Heck, I go out to my 2004 Saturn with a flashlight & magnifying glass at least once a month—twice, if the weather is nice—and read the numbers real slow. Sometimes, I have my wife read the numbers to me and I just listen with my eyes closed.

Y'know, it's funny; I have this buddy in the neighborhood with a '15 Ford Model T that's virtually the twin of mine and when we happen to be at the same car-show or cruise-in, we like to park side-by-side. I feel sorry for him, though, for all the times a group of spectators will approach, each with notepad in hand, wanting to take down the numbers, and I beam like a proud daddy when I see the looks on their faces as they pull their heads out from under my hood and that magic moment happens when one says to the other, "Hey, Morty, did you see that? The numbers match!" And my poor buddy with the other '15 Ford whose numbers are a few digits apart just wants to hang his head and crawl up his exhaust pipe. It's really sad. But hey, it's his own silly fault for buying a non numbers-matching car. Sometimes I wonder how he enjoys the thing at all.

Well, today is looking like a good-weather day and me and the wife will probably pour a couple glasses of merlot and head out to the driveway with "lights & lenses" and do the Saturn, Toyota and Kia all in one session. Yeah, there's just no satisfaction like the satisfaction you feel when all the numbers match—especially if you're with someone you love.

User avatar

RustyFords
Posts: 1188
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:16 am
First Name: Don
Last Name: Allen
Location: Houston, TX
MTFCA Number: 50001

Re: ‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Post by RustyFords » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:22 pm

Thanks for the chuckle Bob.

Today is a typically stressful day at the office....your sarcasm made me smile.
1924 Touring

User avatar

Ruxstel24
Posts: 1866
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:25 am
First Name: Dave
Last Name: Hanlon
Location: NE Ohio
MTFCA Number: 50191
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: ‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Post by Ruxstel24 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:24 pm

Yeah Bob, maybe you and the wife can get matching tattoos of the 15's number !! :lol:

User avatar

Topic author
George House
Posts: 739
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:25 pm
First Name: George
Last Name: House
Location: Northern Caldwell County TX
MTFCA Number: 115
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: ‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Post by George House » Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:24 pm

Thanks everyone. That’s the consensus of opinion I was expecting. Just didn’t want to ‘color’ responses with my matching opinion knowing how little regard ya’ll have for my experiences and attempts at originality 🤪 Especially you ! Bob Coiro ! I’d suggest you consider becoming a writer but already appreciate your descriptive and comedic writing style...
One of the biggest problems with today’s youth is they’ve never known the fear of hearing leather being rapidly pulled through seven Wrangler belt loops.


Allan
Posts: 1321
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: ‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Post by Allan » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:00 am

Because our registration department needs a number to put in the box on the paperwork, we need to stamp the frame with a number. Consequently, I have a number of matching number cars. One matches my landline phone number, another my Army service number, another my birthdate and finally, Henrietta has a 5 digit engine number on the last registration certificate, so I made a plate with that number to sandwich between the block and the water outlet. All this is quite legitimate, and avoids the need for an 18 character vin number to be assigned, at a fee of course!

Allan from down under.

User avatar

Duey_C
Posts: 961
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:28 pm
First Name: Duane
Last Name: Cooley
Location: central MN
MTFCA Number: 32488
Board Member Since: 2015

Re: ‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Post by Duey_C » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:17 am

Hahaha! You started this George and you KNOW how these fellas are!
I'll add my 2 little penny's. Perhaps about a hundred bucks.
Unless it's an early?
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated

User avatar

paulmikeska
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:20 am
First Name: Paul
Last Name: Mikeska
Location: Arvada CO
MTFCA Number: 15976

Re: ‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Post by paulmikeska » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:44 am

Since Ford offered un-numbered blocks for engine replacement even a matching numbered motor may not be the original motor.


John kuehn
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Kuehn
Location: Texas
MTFCA Number: 28924

Re: ‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Post by John kuehn » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:46 am

In some ways the term matching numbers is sort of like using NOS parts. But that’s debatable for some folks.
In the world of Model T’s the only time everything that “matched” or was “NOS” was when they came off the assembly line. That’s hard for a purist to swallow but it’s about 95% true. Or maybe more than that.
As far as value goes it’s who wants it the most whether it’s “matched” or not.

User avatar

Barth_Tool_Co
Posts: 108
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:10 pm
First Name: Jason
Last Name: Alvord
Location: Saginaw, MI.

Re: ‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Post by Barth_Tool_Co » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:13 pm

I'm just happy to have 4 matching tires now😀
... and my number is Beechwood 4-5789
1926 Touring - "Corrina"


Jeff Hood
Posts: 103
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:25 pm
First Name: Jeff
Last Name: Hood
Location: Long Beach, CA.
MTFCA Number: 25636

Re: ‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Post by Jeff Hood » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:05 pm

The important thing is that there is a number that matches the paperwork! Over the years I have ended up with three cars that, due to engine changes at some point, had a number on the paperwork that did not match any number on the car. Only the license plate matched. One 25 coupe is shown as a 23 on the paperwork, and the VIN on the paperwork is nowhere near any number that was ever used on a Model T Ford. If the car were to be stolen, damaged, wrecked, or whatever, and someone was looking for a number on the car, it might never be found or I could not claim ownership.

Now, all of my cars have a number on the frame that matches the number on the paperwork.

User avatar

NHUSA
Posts: 110
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:21 pm
First Name: Fred
Last Name: Dimock
Location: Newfields NH

Re: ‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Post by NHUSA » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:24 pm

The numbers on the motor of my 19 match the original registration for the car.
In fact they match all the registrations I have from 1919 to today.
The only thing that is different is the owner's name, air in the tires, gas in the tank, and oil in the motor.
I think I can find the original oil if I go to Cape Cod and look hard enough but the air and gas are long lost.
NH - Where I live - not the carburetor ! :lol:

User avatar

John Warren
Posts: 652
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Warren
Location: Henderson, Nevada

Re: ‘Matching Numbers’ Add any Monetary Value to a Model T?

Post by John Warren » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:55 pm

Hi George, I can't believe that few believe it matters. So lets think about this in a different perspective, On lets say a 65 mustang, in the research I have done lately, they don't appear to have serial numbers unless it something special like an HO , K code engine and they say that they stamped the ss# on the side in the sand casted block. So what is a numbers matching car if it is not an HO K code or Boss or like. They look for correct casting numbers. Example C5AE-6015-E ,means 1965 full size engine series 6015 third engineering generation. This means that it is supposed to be in a 65 mustang. Ok now lets talk model T's If you you install the wrong engine year in a model T you are judged by many. Same with rear-ends, oil pans, hoggs heads, windshields, radiators, tops, wheels, tires and etc, you know numbers matching!!
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something :P

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic