Factory Wiring
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Topic author - Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:44 pm
- First Name: Rodney
- Last Name: Sarver
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 Touring and 1923 Runabout
- Location: Bethel Park, Pa.
- MTFCA Number: 51287
- MTFCI Number: 25205
Factory Wiring
I have what I believe is an original condition 1921 Touring. There is an extra wire in the right side wire loom which is not connected at the generator or the 5 terminal firewall block, as it has a single wire running from the single terminal on the generator cutout to the ammeter, through it's own hole in the firewall, parallel to the right side loom. Is this original?
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- First Name: Frank
- Last Name: Brandi
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Speedster (1919 w 1926)
- Location: Moline IL
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Re: Factory Wiring
Doesn't look like a correct cut-out (aftermarket?) and the extra wire on the generator is a ground. I see a pulley can't tell if is from the outlet water neck or a water pump on the side of the engine.
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger
Mick Jagger
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- First Name: Joseph
- Last Name: M
- Location: MI
- MTFCA Number: 0
Re: Factory Wiring
Correct early style rectangular cutout, you can faintly see the Ford script stamped into the cover in the posted photo by Sarvert's.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe that the single wire going from the cutout to the ammeter is correct, for the early F.A. electrical system (rectangular cutout, firewall or generator mounted). The wiring harness is later with the wire for the cutout in the loom and going to the terminal block. Could this be a case of a faulty generator that was replaced with an earlier "working" one at some point? A 1921 should have the round cutout and utilize the wire in the harness.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe that the single wire going from the cutout to the ammeter is correct, for the early F.A. electrical system (rectangular cutout, firewall or generator mounted). The wiring harness is later with the wire for the cutout in the loom and going to the terminal block. Could this be a case of a faulty generator that was replaced with an earlier "working" one at some point? A 1921 should have the round cutout and utilize the wire in the harness.
"Remember son, there are two ways to do this: The right way, and your way” Thanks Dad, I love you too.
LOOKING FOR A LUFKIN No. 9A Height Gage Attachment.
LOOKING FOR A LUFKIN No. 9A Height Gage Attachment.
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Topic author - Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:44 pm
- First Name: Rodney
- Last Name: Sarver
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 Touring and 1923 Runabout
- Location: Bethel Park, Pa.
- MTFCA Number: 51287
- MTFCI Number: 25205
Re: Factory Wiring
Thanks for the assistance. Here is a photo of the other side. Where would the loose yellow wire from the cutout,
tie into the 5 terminal block?-
- Posts: 519
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:12 am
- First Name: Joseph
- Last Name: M
- Location: MI
- MTFCA Number: 0
Re: Factory Wiring
You say it is a 1921, I think it is earlier and wired correctly. The wiring harness with the loose/unconnected wire is a "later" style harness (more than likely a replacement) with the wire for the cutout to terminal block woven into the loom. The loose wire was not "used" because it was not needed. The loose wire should go from the cutout to the number 1 terminal on the block, but with that being said, leave it as it is. The single wire from the cutout to the ammeter (which is where I believe it goes to after it passes through the firewall), was eliminated sometime in 1920. Here is a wiring diagram with the early rectangular cutout:
And then the later wiring diagram:
"Remember son, there are two ways to do this: The right way, and your way” Thanks Dad, I love you too.
LOOKING FOR A LUFKIN No. 9A Height Gage Attachment.
LOOKING FOR A LUFKIN No. 9A Height Gage Attachment.
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- First Name: Mark
- Last Name: Gregush
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 cutdown PU, 1920 Dodge touring, 1948 F2 Ford flat head 6 pickup 3 speed
- Location: Portland Or
- MTFCA Number: 52564
- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: Factory Wiring
While unlikely it was replaced, my September 1921 had the 5 terminal block on the firewall. I don't recall now if the wire from the generator was part of the loom or separate wire that bypassed the terminal block and went to the meter.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup
1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup
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- First Name: Frank
- Last Name: Brandi
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Speedster (1919 w 1926)
- Location: Moline IL
- Board Member Since: 2018
Re: Factory Wiring
Found wiring diagrams for 5 post terminal block and rectangular cut-out. https://www.modeltcentral.com/Model-T-F ... erial.html
rectangular cut-out on generator rectangular cut-out on firewall
rectangular cut-out on generator rectangular cut-out on firewall
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger
Mick Jagger
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- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1920 Center Door, 1920 TTWood cab Farm Truck with cable dump grain bed, 1920 TT C-Cab with express bed, 1927 Wood body Dairy Delivery truck
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Re: Factory Wiring
Frank,
That extra pulley, you mentioned, appears to be a Nims water pump. The Nims water pumps were an aftermarket engine outlet elbow water pump/flow assist device. Being as small as they were/are, I don't don't know how much good they actually did. But, with an impeller as small as they have/had, they would not impede the thermo-siphon effect much if they were disconnected as this one is.
That extra pulley, you mentioned, appears to be a Nims water pump. The Nims water pumps were an aftermarket engine outlet elbow water pump/flow assist device. Being as small as they were/are, I don't don't know how much good they actually did. But, with an impeller as small as they have/had, they would not impede the thermo-siphon effect much if they were disconnected as this one is.
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- First Name: Mark
- Last Name: Nunn
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Runabout
- Location: Bennington, NE
- MTFCA Number: 50321
- Board Member Since: 2017
Re: Factory Wiring
This photo shows a very early generator car. Its rectangular cutout is correctly mounted on the firewall. There is a hole in the firewall (just inboard of the carb adjustment rod) where the wire from the cutout passes through. I assume it is going to the ammeter.
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- First Name: Larry
- Last Name: Smith
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 13 Touring, 13 Roadster, 17 Coupelet, 25 Roadster P/U
- Location: Lomita, California
- MTFCA Number: 121
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Re: Factory Wiring
I've had problems with the current reproduction wire looms. What I did was using original factory used looms, I took them to Y and Z's wiring in Redlands, California. They did it right, and even wove in the original Ford tags just like original. Of course, it took twice and much money to do this, but I'm satisfied.
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Re: Factory Wiring
On the original wiring, does anyone what was used as an insulator between the wire and the terminal? Now I mostly see black rubber or those bright-colored plastic ones.
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- First Name: Dan
- Last Name: Treace
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
- Location: North Central FL
- MTFCA Number: 4838
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Re: Factory Wiring
There was no insulator on the wiring to the terminal block or the coil box or spark plug wires.
The only loom with insulators is the switch wires, the ones that fit to back of the combination ignition and light switch at the dash panel.
Hard rubber insulator used at switch components.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
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Re: Factory Wiring
Here are some pictures of a NOS 4 wire dash harness showing the hard rubber on the terminals. Also the Ford tag.
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- First Name: Scott
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- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Factory Wiring
Well, the "extra wire" isn't a ground...it is the generator wire contained within a later wiring loom and left unused. Hard to tell if the generator is a very early FA generator even after blowing up the picture, but I'd love to see which ammeter is on the dash, as early ones are beautifully made and the light switch is a cast and not stamped item.
Mark Nunn: who cares about where the cutout is mounted...look at that head!!! What's going on there??
Mark Nunn: who cares about where the cutout is mounted...look at that head!!! What's going on there??
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
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- First Name: Pat
- Last Name: McNallen
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
- Location: Graham, Texas
- MTFCA Number: 51486
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Re: Factory Wiring
Sleeve valve conversion?
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- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Runabout
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- Board Member Since: 2017
Re: Factory Wiring
I was wondering too. The intake valves appear to be spring-loaded and not connected to the cam. Downward piston movement (pressure differential) would open valves. My understanding is that some period motorcycle engines had valves like these.
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- First Name: Larry
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- Location: Lomita, California
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Re: Factory Wiring
Save that old Ford script wiring. That is what I use to have perfect reproduction looms made. My guy even puts in the Ford tag.
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- First Name: Steve
- Last Name: Jelf
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
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Re: Factory Wiring
Original colors? I don't think so.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
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Re: Factory Wiring
"Automatic" or "atmospheric" intake valves were in wide use on low speed stationary engines and some very early cars. They quickly fell out of favor for automotive use due to their limited speed range and throttling effect and limitations on valve size/weight and valve timing options. The atmospheric intake valve had to have a very light spring in order to function, and that would not allow for engine speeds much beyond 400 RPM, if that. Volumetric efficiency was also limited. The ability to time the intake valve opening and closing points was very limited. I can't think of a reason to convert a T engine to such a system, especially if it involved significant expense. A stock T engine would run within a limited speed range if you removed the intake valve lifters and put low pressure intake valve springs in it. But if you increased RPM very much above slow idle, the intake valves would begin to bounce and float, and valve timing would be come erratic.
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- Posts: 6411
- Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
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- Last Name: McNallen
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
- Location: Graham, Texas
- MTFCA Number: 51486
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Re: Factory Wiring
I'd like to know more about that cylinder head.