Babbitt

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
Tractordoc
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:41 pm
First Name: George
Last Name: Barclay
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1920 coupe
Location: West Michigan

Babbitt

Post by Tractordoc » Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:22 pm

I have access to a bunch of these bars of Babbitt, wondering if it is any good. Opinions?
Thanks George,
20210105_143740.jpg

User avatar

RajoRacer
Posts: 4308
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Tomaso
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1919 Centerdoor, 1924 TT C-Cab Express, 1925 Racer
Location: Longbranch, WA
MTFCA Number: 14972
MTFCI Number: 15411
Board Member Since: 2001

Re: Babbitt

Post by RajoRacer » Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:52 pm

I knew the manager at Non-Ferrous Metals in Seattle - I did a considerable amount of work on his father's Runabout.

User avatar

RajoRacer
Posts: 4308
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Tomaso
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1919 Centerdoor, 1924 TT C-Cab Express, 1925 Racer
Location: Longbranch, WA
MTFCA Number: 14972
MTFCI Number: 15411
Board Member Since: 2001

Re: Babbitt

Post by RajoRacer » Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:53 pm

How did you come across those ?


Topic author
Tractordoc
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:41 pm
First Name: George
Last Name: Barclay
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1920 coupe
Location: West Michigan

Re: Babbitt

Post by Tractordoc » Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:04 pm

A friend has them they were used for ballast in a wood sailboat.

User avatar

Rich Eagle
Posts: 6795
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:51 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Eagle
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1909 TR 1914 TR 1915 Rd 1920 Spdstr 1922 Coupe 1925 Tudor
Location: Idaho Falls, ID
MTFCA Number: 1219
Contact:

Re: Babbitt

Post by Rich Eagle » Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:11 pm

When did I do that?


George Hand
Posts: 305
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:02 pm
First Name: George
Last Name: Hand
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 open express, 1920 touring, 1926 tudor-lisenced and insured, 1921tt project 1922 fendered chassis, 192x tt dootle bug 192xengine w/winch projects
Location: Preble NY
MTFCA Number: 28114
MTFCI Number: 21834

Re: Babbitt

Post by George Hand » Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:58 pm

If it was not satisfactory for Automotive use (Model T or A Ford), I am sure it would be useful for a Stationary or Hit-n-Miss Engine.
George

User avatar

RajoRacer
Posts: 4308
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Tomaso
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1919 Centerdoor, 1924 TT C-Cab Express, 1925 Racer
Location: Longbranch, WA
MTFCA Number: 14972
MTFCI Number: 15411
Board Member Since: 2001

Re: Babbitt

Post by RajoRacer » Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:18 pm

Hopefully a couple of our "Babbitt pourers" will chime in but I believe Premium Nickel was acceptable for our engines.

User avatar

John E. Guitar
Posts: 467
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:52 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Guitar
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Touring, 1924 Tourer
Location: Ulladulla
Board Member Since: 2012

Re: Babbitt

Post by John E. Guitar » Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:04 pm

It conforms to ASTM B-23, Grade 2 which is ok for Model Ts.

http://nfmetals.com/babbitt-metal/


Topic author
Tractordoc
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:41 pm
First Name: George
Last Name: Barclay
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1920 coupe
Location: West Michigan

Re: Babbitt

Post by Tractordoc » Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:13 pm

Thanks for the replies. Looks like like it might be good stuff, I'm sure my friend will be surprised. I was thinking about trying some in a hitmiss engine don't think I would trust my Babbitting skills on a T block, maybe someday.


Gene_French
Posts: 835
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:58 am
First Name: Gene
Last Name: French
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Roadster pkup.
Location: Nunn, CO
MTFCA Number: 15614
Board Member Since: 2014

Re: Babbitt

Post by Gene_French » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:59 am

George:
i recommend N-F smelters ... the Nickle 2 babbitt is correct for our use and is designed for automotive high speed high pressure applications ...also N-F smelters will sell in small quantities that suit our small business or hobby situations ... good people to deal with ...always an optimist Gene French


Adam
Posts: 1411
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:57 am
First Name: Adam
Last Name: Doleshal
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: ‘13 Touring, ‘24 Touring, ‘25 TT dump truck, ‘26 Tudor, ‘20 Theiman harvester T powerplant, ‘20 T Staude tractor
Location: Wisconsin
MTFCA Number: 23809
MTFCI Number: 1
Board Member Since: 2000

Re: Babbitt

Post by Adam » Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:59 pm

Just because an old ingot says anything on it does not mean that is what the ingot is...

Here you have some ingots that were used as ballast in a sailboat. It is quite possible that someone decades ago found an old mould that was the right size for what they wanted to do and then cast a bunch of ingots of whatever they could melt to use for ballast weight in a sailboat. Maybe not in just that one boat, but maybe in dozens or even hundreds of boats. Or, It could be bearing metal that could make satisfactory bearings. I wouldn’t ever take the chance of using any bearing metal I wasn’t 100% sure of.

Some bearing metal suppliers can assay a sample for you and tell you exactly what it is. That was a $100 service when I inquired with my supplier several years ago.

The scrapyard that takes all my unusable T stuff would pay $3/pound for babbitt a couple years ago. If you go to a major scrap buyer, they have a device that will tell them enough about those ingots that they can make an offer on them.


Dan McEachern
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:08 am
First Name: DAN
Last Name: MCEACHERN
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: too many. '14 touring, 2 depot hacks, 2 speedsters
Location: ALAMEDA,CA,USA

Re: Babbitt

Post by Dan McEachern » Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:17 pm

George- if there is any concern regarding the authenticity of your bars, take one to a scrap metal dealer and ask them to shoot it with their XRF gun.
Most scrap yards have them and should be willing to check a bar as a favor or for a small gratuity. I would imagine that most metal suppliers guard their ingot molds pretty well but. . . . . Any way nice find. Dan


Topic author
Tractordoc
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:41 pm
First Name: George
Last Name: Barclay
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1920 coupe
Location: West Michigan

Re: Babbitt

Post by Tractordoc » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:34 pm

Not a bad idea, I know the manager of our local scrap yard pretty well might take a bar there and see what they say. Thanks again for the input. George


J1MGOLDEN
Posts: 945
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:39 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Golden
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Model T Roadster
Location: Bowie, MD
MTFCA Number: 14294
MTFCI Number: 13562

Re: Babbitt

Post by J1MGOLDEN » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:31 pm

The Babbitt formula had several options and included lead, but now new Babbitt is being advertised as lead free.

Henry Ford's official Babbitt was mostly tin and only 15 % lead.


J1MGOLDEN
Posts: 945
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:39 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Golden
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Model T Roadster
Location: Bowie, MD
MTFCA Number: 14294
MTFCI Number: 13562

Re: Babbitt

Post by J1MGOLDEN » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:39 pm

This is a change from the earlier 15 %.

MARCH 2, 1927 Letter GL1600 from the Fargo branch
(Found id Bruce McCalley's book)

For your information, the following is a comparative analysis of the babbitt in a connecting rod re-babbitted by an outside concern, and standard Ford babbitt:
Outside Standard Ford
Tin 82.96 % 85-86 %
Lead 5.00 % .10(max.) %
Copper 5.15 % 7.00-7.5 %
Antimony 6.89 % 7.00-7.50 %

The letter continues, stating that the increased copper in the Ford Babbitt gives greater wear, and stresses that the dealers should use the Ford Babbitt instead of any outside material.


Dan McEachern
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:08 am
First Name: DAN
Last Name: MCEACHERN
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: too many. '14 touring, 2 depot hacks, 2 speedsters
Location: ALAMEDA,CA,USA

Re: Babbitt

Post by Dan McEachern » Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:43 pm

True Nickel Babbitt has never had any lead in it. Most knowledgeable shops only use Nickel Babbitt in engine bearings. Its not lead free because its politically correct. Just FYI


Dennis Fleming
Posts: 208
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:09 pm
First Name: Dennis
Last Name: Fleming
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1913 touring,23 TT Express,23 Center Door,15 Touring,22 Speedster,22Coupe
Location: Luray
MTFCA Number: 27815
MTFCI Number: 19314
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Babbitt

Post by Dennis Fleming » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:04 am

Are these useable for engine Babbitt ?
3F0079D5-D9B8-4F1B-80D6-7AFB0A8B9433.jpeg


Dan McEachern
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:08 am
First Name: DAN
Last Name: MCEACHERN
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: too many. '14 touring, 2 depot hacks, 2 speedsters
Location: ALAMEDA,CA,USA

Re: Babbitt

Post by Dan McEachern » Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:36 pm

The two bottom ones- the XXXX Nickel ones are for sure- purchased my babbitt from them for years before they closed their plant in San Francisco.


Dan Hatch
Posts: 4111
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:31 pm
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Hatch
Location: Alabama
MTFCA Number: 49974

Re: Babbitt

Post by Dan Hatch » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:40 pm

Here is link to company that makes Ford Babbitt. Dan
https://stores.acrosales.com/fordbabbitt/

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic