MTFCA Forum

Hi all
I have two different brands of accessory brakes was wondering if anyone is familiar with either of these sets and/or has any info or literature on either of these. They both anchor at the rear similar to original rocky mountains so I'm thinking that they should work similar to original rockies. Of course they would need to be cleaned up and relined.I currently have newer rockys on my 23 roadster pickup and am thinking of trying one of these sets. What ye all think? Also suggestions for what linings to use? Thanks in advance for your thoughts and comments.
Tom

Set one has stronghold pat. 4-3-23 cast into them. Set two has no markings.

McMaster Carr sell lining by the foot. Get the woven stuff with the brass wire. Look for the 3/16" thick stuff. My first choice would be the Stronghold. Check to see how worn the holes are and braze up with hard brass if real worn. You can google "mtfca Stronghold" and you should get some photos of the missing anchors and how they were assembled. Also besides the broken off rod on the one set, you are missing the springs. The unknown set will show where they go. You can use the longer cupling nuts for adjusters, just angle the ends so they lock, use the one(s) you have now for samples.
https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... Stronghold

Mark, you suggested the McMaster-Carr woven Metallic Lining. I tried that a couple of years ago on both of my cars, then noticed it was severely wearing my drums with deep grooves. I was able to turn them smooth again then changed to woven metallic from Chaffans. No more wear. Anyone else had this problem?

Good question. The brass wire should be soft enough to wear away quickly and not have grooved the drum, being softer then the steel drum. Even the Model A semi-hard woven lining has brass wire in it and there are guys still running the pressed steel drums. My suggestion for the getting lining with the brass wire, is from the standpoint of heat removal. Maybe something else was going on. So far the only lining I have replaced Model T wise, is a parking brake lining for the big drum and frankly I don't know who supplied the piece I used. Across most car forums the M-C metallic seems to be the choice. Sorry I can't give a comparison between what the two companies sell.

Most of the comments on antique car brake lining replacements for internal or external applications prefer woven material with non-ferros (brass) substrate to reduce heat in constant applications. The 26-27 lining sold by Langs has brass wire in it. The claim is molded linings tend to allow too much heat, and may come loose from rivets due to the solid material, but some use those with good success. My R/M's came with molded, but think they have brass fibers in the compressed molded material.

The repo A-C brakes come with Green Gripper woven, and Chaffin's I believe sells both molded and Green Gripper woven in 1 1/2", 1 3/4" and 2" width sizes for T accessory brakes, I would check with them on what you need.

Older post:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/82 ... 1527950599

Stronghold was Montgomery Ward's brand. They were manufactured for Montgomery Wards by AC.

You can get green gripper lining from chaffin's.

Stephen

John Saylor, Were the grooves caused by the lining? Or the rivets?
A problem that never seems to go away, is that rivets are often sold as "brass rivets" when they are actually brass plated steel rivets. This was happening over fifty years ago! And I ran into it again only a few months back. Back in the days when drum brake shoes would be purchased either new or relined used shoes, over fifty years ago, a lot of the companies began using steel rivets. A LOT of the steel rivets were brass plated. I used to take a pencil magnet with me to buy replacement shoes to test the rivets before I would accept them from the store. This went on for several years before the friction materials companies went to bonded (glued) linings.
Been awhile since I ran into it with model T replacement linings. However about twenty to thirty years ago, I made a stink with a couple of the model T parts suppliers about lining sets that had brass plated steel rivets included. They were not at that time aware that the rivet suppliers had changed what they provided. The problem at that time for the model T world was quickly corrected, and I haven't heard of that problem in transmission lining sets since.
I do still run into it with rivets themselves. Whether from the local Ace, or an internet hardware supplier, brass plated steel rivets are sometimes called "brass rivets".

Even so-called soft steel rivets should NEVER be used for brake linings of any type. Even if "peened" with a slow rivet press, the peening will harden the steel. If peened with a hammer, the hammering work hardens the steel, The hardening will create a cutter that will begin cutting the drum right from the start. Even IF the soft steel rivet is not hardened, the abusive environment of the brake lining (hot/cold cycling, maybe moisture present?) will cause the steel rivet to rust quickly. While the rusting is not serious enough to significantly weaken the rivet, the dust rust particles WILL flake off and embed in the surface of the lining. This, usually inline with the rivet itself. Iron oxide is a serious abrasive, used in sandpaper and grinding stones! The embedded rust particles turn the brake lining surface into a grinding surface.
Back when replacement brake shoes were being sold with steel rivets, I saw many dozens of shoes and drums cut in line with the rivets because of the abrasive effect of the iron oxide. That is a lot for someone that never had a paying job in an automotive repair business!
I have in recent years run into the same problem with modern cars and disc brakes. The shorter surface disc brake pads seem to have less tendency to cut away the disc's surface, but it is still enough to destroy good discs prematurely.

Wayne - The grooving was not a rivet issue. It was a series of small grooves spread all across the drums. After reading some remarks I'm going to check and make sure what kind of metallic material was in them.

John, I would appreciate hearing what you find. I have seen steel wire woven into brake type lining material. It is not common (at least I haven't seen it more than a few times?), and very fine steel wire (almost like coarse steel wool?). What I saw was old enough that the steel wires had already rusted somewhat. I don't know for what that material was intended to be used.

John, I would appreciate hearing what you find. I have seen steel wire woven into brake type lining material. It is not common (at least I haven't seen it more than a few times?), and very fine steel wire (almost like coarse steel wool?). What I saw was old enough that the steel wires had already rusted somewhat. I don't know for what that material was intended to be used.

Thank you all for your input it is most appreciated.
Tom

Wayne - I still had a short piece of that lining. The wire in it looks brass. McMaster-Carr only shows one kind of metallic on their website - High-Strength Brake and Clutch Lining and they say its brass. This happened on both my 21 Touring and 27 Tudor. Maybe they changed it since then. here is a photo of one of the drums.

Can you post a photo of that piece of lining? While the lining I have seen has brass wires running thru it, they are not that prevalent to do that much damage. If there was a bad batch of woven lining, it would be something to watch out for. Might try a magnet and see if it would try and stick to the lining.

Thank you all for your advice and input is much appreciated.
Tom

Mark - Couple of pictures - The metal is not magnetic. I scraped out a few pieces of the wire and it looks to be brass. I am beginning to think the base material is just too hard. I found the lining I took off The Tudor hanging in the rafters. You can see the metal wire very clear. The Tudor is really hard to stop at times. I will be tinkering with the linkage and equalizer this winter.
After about six months of use.

Wow on the bottom photo! Not what I would expect to see on brake lining. That takes semi-metalic to a new level. The lining I have worked with has a few strands woven in, but that stuff looks to be almost 50/50. My guess it was used in power transmission in an oil filled housing. (?)