Lockpicking old locks

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Jonah D'Avella
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Lockpicking old locks

Post by Jonah D'Avella » Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:46 pm

What are some experiences y'all have had opening old locks?
F: first F: find
O: on O: oil
R: race R: revive
D: day D: drive
Jonahdavella@gmail.com

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DanTreace
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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by DanTreace » Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:50 pm

Jonah D'Avella wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:46 pm
What are some experiences y'all have had opening old locks?


Hardened drill bit for cylinder lock, hack saw for pad locks.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by Luke » Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:04 pm

I suppose that, at least initially, I'd try a little more finesse than Dan (it ekes out the fun!), what sort of lock is it you're wanting to have a go at?

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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by Susanne » Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:24 pm

Dan left out the real fun one, an oxy-acetylene torch with a small cutting head. Never had a problem with it not going through whatever hardened steel the shank was made of... :mrgreen:

On old warded kocks I've made blanks of the approximate size of the key (slot and depth), coated it with Dykem and used a file to cut out the slots for the lock wards...


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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by It's Bill » Sat Jan 09, 2021 8:52 pm

The stage robbers on Gunsmoke use a six gun... :) Bill


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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by jiminbartow » Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:17 pm

When I was in the Marines (1972-1977), from 1975 to 1977, I was assigned to MSG duty (Marine Security Guard), better known as Embassy Duty. We guarded American Embassies around the world. I was in Karachi, Pakistan for a year, then Canberra, Australia. Marines on this duty were on loan to the State Department for the duration of the duty, which was two years. Marine Guards attended 8 weeks of training in Arlington Virginia that was somewhat akin to the type of specialized training one sees in James Bond movies taught by the FBI, CIA and Secret Service to acquaint us with the various situation we might encounter, such as mob control, locating listening devices (bugs), evasive driving to deter kidnapping, the use of all types of weapons, specialized hand to hand combat and how to conduct ourselves at a diplomatic party. One of the classes was taught by a lock expert on how to pick various locks and how to open a safe. The expert had specialized tools like the ones shown in the attached photo, but he was also able to open a lock using several bent paper clips. I’m sure this is what you mean by your question. You can find these lock picking tools and videos online, if you are serious about learning to do it. While I never did it myself, I know it can be done with the right tools and practice. Jim Patrick

PS. You can also call a locksmith.

84D9DC17-0962-4B8C-992F-AEBC8BECC521.jpeg
Last edited by jiminbartow on Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Jonah D'Avella
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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by Jonah D'Avella » Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:53 pm

I have an almost identical set!
F: first F: find
O: on O: oil
R: race R: revive
D: day D: drive
Jonahdavella@gmail.com


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Jonah D'Avella
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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by Jonah D'Avella » Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:56 pm

The second to far left tool and the second to far right tool seem to be the most helpful.
F: first F: find
O: on O: oil
R: race R: revive
D: day D: drive
Jonahdavella@gmail.com


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Jonah D'Avella
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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by Jonah D'Avella » Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:59 pm

Also, Mr. Bartow, thank you for your service!
F: first F: find
O: on O: oil
R: race R: revive
D: day D: drive
Jonahdavella@gmail.com


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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by jiminbartow » Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:09 pm

Thank you Jonah. The enthusiasm you bring to the Model T hobby is welcome and refreshing. You are the future. Keep up the good work. SemperFi. Jim Patrick


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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by Luke » Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:19 pm

Not wanting to contribute to too much thread drift here, but apropos Jim's comment I'm reminded of when we had some fairly devastating earthquakes here and it was the job of various groups to attempt access to every building in town in order to determine if there were people trapped etc...

It turned out that, at the top floor of one very damaged building, the penthouse resident had installed a secondhand security door from when the American embassy had done a refit. Well all the usual tools, including a substantial ram, clearly hadn't worked and so that floor + door was left alone (damaged but intact) - until some cunning people came along and simply knocked through the plasterboard alongside the door and gained access in a few seconds ;)

Anyway, Jonah, it looks as if you have the tools you need - FWIW I consider something like the 3rd from left (top) the most universally useful, but as it's more of an art than a science I guess it's whatever works for you!


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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by Jonah D'Avella » Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:29 pm

I will try that one more often!
F: first F: find
O: on O: oil
R: race R: revive
D: day D: drive
Jonahdavella@gmail.com


jiminbartow
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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by jiminbartow » Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:19 am

Check out some of the lock picking videos on YouTube.

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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by TRDxB2 » Sun Jan 10, 2021 8:23 pm

Lock picking 101 on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO3mMYwKkKs
More of the same
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTZddvAws9M
There must be 20+ videos on How to pick a lock
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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by John kuehn » Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:20 am

Part of my job as a maintenance mechanic at the college I retired from was a locksmith.
Jonah your right about the tool that’s 2nd from the left in the lock picking kit.
That tool I used as a rake to rake the lock pins back and forth while I applied tension on the lock clockwise as I raked the pins. On the bottom right of the pick kit picture that Jim posted there are tension bars shown. Use one of those to apply tension clockwise.
That method would usually open common locks that’s used on tool boxes, file and desk drawers.


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Jonah D'Avella
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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by Jonah D'Avella » Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:57 am

Thanks! What is the difference with house door nobs locks?
F: first F: find
O: on O: oil
R: race R: revive
D: day D: drive
Jonahdavella@gmail.com

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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by TRDxB2 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:05 am

Here is a video explaining house locks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIboCppTrBs
This shows several types including one similar to a Model T Ignition https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTZddvAws9M
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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by jiminbartow » Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:41 am

You ask interesting questions, Jonah. Jim Patrick

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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by rbishop26 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:40 pm

Jonah,
With house door locks, easiest to use a "bump key". Can buy online.
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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by Will_Vanderburg » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:47 am

I have picked locks successfully with paper clips.
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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by Jonah D'Avella » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:28 am

I beleive it, i will be trying that soon.
F: first F: find
O: on O: oil
R: race R: revive
D: day D: drive
Jonahdavella@gmail.com


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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by Jonah D'Avella » Tue Jan 12, 2021 2:38 pm

Is there any springs in the model t ignition lock?
F: first F: find
O: on O: oil
R: race R: revive
D: day D: drive
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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by Humblej » Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:41 pm

Jonah, I don't remember there being any springs.

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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by TRDxB2 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:01 pm

The are no springs in the ignition lock. If you intended to disassemble and ignition switch you need to be careful how you take it apart. Besides the distinctive front plat there are two common ways the fiber disk ( that the wiring connects to) is held in place - bent tabs or pins to twist off. Unless its a special one the internals parts are the same. Now to remove the tumbler -- all depends on how it was made. Most tumbler bodies were made with pot metal that just failed over time. If yours is solid there is a good chance that the pins will fall out as your trying to remove it and they need to be relocated - right side up in their original position. They look like small rectangles. But the big cation is in removing the parts without damaging them. The fiber part that fits inside the metal enclosure is a tight fit to the end of the tumbler which is insert from the outside. I didn't include the shield that goes around the tumbler in some configurations it needs to be removed from the metal enclosure and in others it doesn't. So if you intend to take the the switch apart and reach a point where things aren't coming apart - stop and post a picture of the problem
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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by Jonah D'Avella » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:27 pm

I found that although my key will still open my lock, the lock Barrel will still turn with a screwdriver stuck 1/16 of an inch into it.
F: first F: find
O: on O: oil
R: race R: revive
D: day D: drive
Jonahdavella@gmail.com

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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by TRDxB2 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:52 pm

Jonah D'Avella wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:27 pm
I found that although my key will still open my lock, the lock Barrel will still turn with a screwdriver stuck 1/16 of an inch into it.
Could be that the pins are rusted open. Spray a little anti-rust (WD-40, Blaster PB whatever you have ) in the lock and work the key only - don't force anything and you don't want to saturate the fiber parts
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by jiminbartow » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:10 am

Tumblers work by gravity. Tumblers normally hang down into the lock housing, locking the lock barrel in place. When key is inserted it lifts the tumblers up as the key goes in. If the correct key is used, upper and lower ends are lined up with interior diameter of the barrel housing, allowing the lock to turn within the housing. If you take the lock apart, it is very important you keep track of the position of each tumbler. If you put them in the wrong order, or upside down, the configuration will totally change and your key will not work. Jim Patrick


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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by jiminbartow » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:22 am

Jonah. If you don’t have a key for your ignition and are trying to get your ignition to turn, new keys are available. There is a number stamped on the front of the ignition barrel that corresponds with the number of the key that will fit your ignition. You can get original keys on eBay or new keys from one of the parts suppliers. Jim Patrick


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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by Jonah D'Avella » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:27 am

I currently have 5 keys that fit my ignition, they will slide in and out frely and are lockecd in when turned to mag or bat. it seems like the tumblers do not catch the outside like they should and just bounce over the bumps.
F: first F: find
O: on O: oil
R: race R: revive
D: day D: drive
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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by TRDxB2 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:01 pm

If the numbers on the keys are different or not and you are able to turn to mag or bat it is likely that the pins are rusted in place. Lets say a key was in the lock and the tumbler get wet and the pins were rusted in an open position. You could remove the key because its brass. Several keys would work as well as a screw driver to turn it to mag or bat
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by jiminbartow » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:34 pm

Jonah. Do any of the numbers of your keys match the number stamped into the front of the lock barrel? If not, you need to get one that matches. If the sliding tumblers are corroded and will not slide in their slots, perhaps a little catalyst, such as Blaster, sprayed into the lock will free them up. Jim Patrick
Last edited by jiminbartow on Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lockpicking old locks

Post by TRDxB2 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:35 pm

Jonah D'Avella wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:27 pm
I found that although my key will still open my lock, the lock Barrel will still turn with a screwdriver stuck 1/16 of an inch into it.
So you have at least one key that will open the lock. The key should be "locked in" when turned to mag or bat so it doesn't fall out. A correct number key isn't the current problem if you can turn all the way to mag / bat. Once you correct the rusted pins you should need a correct key. Original Model T ignition tumblers are rather simple. The numbers on the keys range from 52 and 74, and these numbered keys were used between the years 1919 and 1927
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger

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