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16 and looking for a Model T...What for sale out there?
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:39 pm
by Sandow
Looking for a brass era Model T Ford (16 and prior) or early Ford (N, R, S, ext) for my first vehicle.
Located in FL, but willing to travel for the right vehicle...
Don’t have a huge budget, but young and very motivated to get into it...
Thank you for any leads and good luck with all your projects, especially with everything that’s going on.
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:02 pm
by perry kete
Greetings and welcome to the world of Model T's. The earlier the car the higher the price. Later Model T's are affordable for someone starting out but take care and learn what to look for when you go shopping for a car. Sometimes people offer a car at a reasonable price but it is a mish mash of parts and years so do some research before making the deal. This forum is a great place to ask and learn.
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:50 pm
by jiminbartow
You are exactly like me in 1970. Since I was 9 years old in 1963, when I first became interested in Model T’s, when I came across two articles in my new July, 1963 edition of Popular Science magazine (I can post the articles if you are interested). The first article gave a brief history of the Model T and included a picture of a Model T crossing a ditch and impossibly twisted in two different directions. The second article in that issue was on how to drive a Model T and was used by me, 9 years later to teach myself how to drive my Model T when it was completed. At 9 years of age, after reading those2 articles, I was determined to, one day, have a Model T.
My opportunity came in 1970 when I was 16, I saw a Model T advertised in the newspaper. When my Dad got home from work, I gathered all the cash I had and we drove over to Tampa, FL to look at it. When we got there, it was getting dark, so we looked at it using a flashlight. It was very Rusty, with bulletproof holes in the side, dented fender, rotten wood, rotten upholstery, broken glass and flat tires, but it was all there, original and for me, love at first sight. The musty smell of mildew, gasoline, grease rubber and age was heavenly. While I was crawling all over it, my dad was talking to the old man who was the original owner. He discovered it was a 1926 coupe. The old man wanted $650.00 and Dad talked him down to $600.00, which was exactly the amount of my life savings. We paid him and the next morning, which as a Saturday, we drove over with a trailer and there were a dozen buyers who had seen the ad and waited too long, because it was mine! With the help of several of the men milling around, we pushed my new Acquistion onto the trailer.
For the next two years, that car kept me busy, broke and out of trouble, as I spent all of my after school time when not working and all the money I earned bagging groceries at $1.65/hour on restoring the T. It became my passion. After two years, in 1972, after graduating from high school, I finally finished it. I didn’t have the resources there are today, so the many the skills needed to restore an old car like this, I had to learn it myself and figure it all out and troubleshoot any problems that arose, with the help of three Model T restoration books, which were among my first purchases. Probably the most exciting day of my life, up to that point, was when I started her for the first time and she roared to life. It was music to my ears.
I am 67 now and after 50 years, still have that Model which is like a member of my family and will always be a part of my life. I have posted a picture of my 1926 coupe that has brought so much joy to my life, as well as the 3 books that were of so much help to me, in case you buy a T that needs work. Good luck on buying the T of your dreams and welcome to the affliction. Jim Patrick
- 560D05CA-9512-4237-B7B4-75F2FF1025CA.jpeg (78.55 KiB) Viewed 7045 times
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:53 pm
by Oldav8tor
Welcome to the world of Model T's. I have a friend (class of 1967) who started working on T's when he was 15 and he's still active in the hobby 55+ years later. He has restored some museum quality cars over the years and has never lost the spark. May you have a long and successful association with the Model T world.
There are people who use Model T's as daily drivers but for a young person like yourself I have my concerns. Slow speed, lack of safety features, poor lights, etc., etc., would be definite concerns. I hope you'll have access to a modern vehicle for the bulk of your transportation needs so you can save the T for those travels that are more appropriate.
Track down a nearby Model T Club (either MTFCA or MTFCI) and enlist their help in tracking down and evaluating a vehicle. There are a lot of potential traps for the unwary when it comes to buying a 100 year old car. The car may have serious ($$$) mechanical faults or not be as represented as to model year and etc. I bought my Model T in August of 2018, spent a year getting it running and am still tweaking on it today (it never ends.) Be patient, do your homework and don't be afraid to ask for help and you will avoid the majority of pitfalls that could sour an otherwise wonderful experience.
Good Luck!
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:31 pm
by Ruxstel24
Welcome Mason !
What sparked your interest in a Model T ??
You can probably buy 2-3 black era cars for the price of a brass car...N,R,S, big money !!
You have some good advice here and people won't steer you wrong.
Enjoy !!
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:07 pm
by Steve Jelf
I see by your profile that you've been with us for a couple of years, so this is not a new passion for you. Presumably you already know a little about Model T's, but you may not be fully aware of the market. As Dave says, when you get into the alphabet Fords (Models A through S) you're talking serious money. Even the very early T's can be pretty pricey. In my book your ideal brass T would be a 1915. It's likely to cost less than earlier T's, has more bling than a 1916, but not so much that you need to spend half your life polishing. 
The 1915 in this auction is a long shot. It's far from home, of unknown condition (not much showing from under the clutter), and somebody willing to pay too much may show up. If it's in the same shape as others shown in this auction it's not a good candidate for a first car. On the other hand, it may sell cheap enough to be worth hauling to Florida on a U-haul rental.
https://www.sundgren.com/antique-cars-a ... usel-59460
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:16 pm
by John kuehn
Hello Mason!
It’s great you want to learn about Model T’s and welcome to the hobby! There are lots of publications and how to drive and work on them available. As others have said get the manuals and READ, READ and Read the books about ModelT’s. You will get to know about them and gain confidence with them.
It’s important to remember you will dealing with 100 year old technology! No computers are involved in the way they were built. Another thing to know is their braking system is not like today’s car and they don’t have with the get up and go like today’s cars. You’ll find this out when you begin to drive one.
Take your time and study the manuals about driving and operating them.
Again we are glad your here!
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:45 pm
by Sandow
Steve Jelf wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:07 pm
I see by your profile that you've been with us for a couple of years, so this is not a new passion for you. Presumably you already know a little about Model T's, but you may not be fully aware of the market. As Dave says, when you get into the alphabet Fords (Models A through S) you're talking serious money. Even the very early T's can be pretty pricey. In my book your ideal brass T would be a 1915. It's likely to cost less than earlier T's, has more bling than a 1916, but not so much that you need to spend half your life polishing.
The 1915 in this auction is a long shot. It's far from home, of unknown condition (not much showing from under the clutter), and somebody willing to pay too much may show up. If it's in the same shape as others shown in this auction it's not a good candidate for a first car. On the other hand, it may sell cheap enough to be worth hauling to Florida on a U-haul rental.
https://www.sundgren.com/antique-cars-a ... usel-59460
I’m a new member of the forum as of a few days ago, but I’ve since known about the forum and read it’s members posts prior from about 2019 to 2020 respectively...
I’ve looked at a 1916 in person that I was going to buy, but didn’t really work out and it’s still largely in the air. As for prices, I’ve been looking since I’ve became seriously interested and I know the market pretty well. As for prices being higher the older you go that generally might be the case, but I’ve seen enough lower priced “letter cars” and brass Ts (if you know where to look) to be confident i can find one in my price point if I keep looking, as I’ve already found one and several other potentials, but they either were not really a great fit or it was just a weird situation...
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:46 pm
by Sandow
John kuehn wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:16 pm
Hello Mason!
It’s great you want to learn about Model T’s and welcome to the hobby! There are lots of publications and how to drive and work on them available. As others have said get the manuals and READ, READ and Read the books about ModelT’s. You will get to know about them and gain confidence with them.
It’s important to remember you will dealing with 100 year old technology! No computers are involved in the way they were built. Another thing to know is their braking system is not like today’s car and they don’t have with the get up and go like today’s cars. You’ll find this out when you begin to drive one.
Take your time and study the manuals about driving and operating them.
Again we are glad your here!
Thank you
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:51 pm
by Sandow
Ruxstel24 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:31 pm
Welcome Mason !
What sparked your interest in a Model T ??
You can probably buy 2-3 black era cars for the price of a brass car...N,R,S, big money !!
You have some good advice here and people won't steer you wrong.
Enjoy !!
Thank you and a lot of things sparked my interest and I may go into more depth when I have more time, as that question deserves a good answer. As for prices I’ve found brass era cars that were cheaper than black and silver radiated cars, as well as N, R, S, ext that were as much as an universal aver T in price...
As for the people in the hobby, I’ve had a generally great experience so far, except for some very specific instances, but nothing to get hung up on.
Thank you again
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:52 pm
by Sandow
Oldav8tor wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:53 pm
Welcome to the world of Model T's. I have a friend (class of 1967) who started working on T's when he was 15 and he's still active in the hobby 55+ years later. He has restored some museum quality cars over the years and has never lost the spark. May you have a long and successful association with the Model T world.
There are people who use Model T's as daily drivers but for a young person like yourself I have my concerns. Slow speed, lack of safety features, poor lights, etc., etc., would be definite concerns. I hope you'll have access to a modern vehicle for the bulk of your transportation needs so you can save the T for those travels that are more appropriate.
Track down a nearby Model T Club (either MTFCA or MTFCI) and enlist their help in tracking down and evaluating a vehicle. There are a lot of potential traps for the unwary when it comes to buying a 100 year old car. The car may have serious ($$$) mechanical faults or not be as represented as to model year and etc. I bought my Model T in August of 2018, spent a year getting it running and am still tweaking on it today (it never ends.) Be patient, do your homework and don't be afraid to ask for help and you will avoid the majority of pitfalls that could sour an otherwise wonderful experience.
Good Luck!
Thank you for the advice and it’s great to hear about other peoples stories and experiences, especially when it relates or has to do with some near and dear to you heart, like the Model T...
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:55 pm
by Sandow
Sandow wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:52 pm
Oldav8tor wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:53 pm
Welcome to the world of Model T's. I have a friend (class of 1967) who started working on T's when he was 15 and he's still active in the hobby 55+ years later. He has restored some museum quality cars over the years and has never lost the spark. May you have a long and successful association with the Model T world.
There are people who use Model T's as daily drivers but for a young person like yourself I have my concerns. Slow speed, lack of safety features, poor lights, etc., etc., would be definite concerns. I hope you'll have access to a modern vehicle for the bulk of your transportation needs so you can save the T for those travels that are more appropriate.
Track down a nearby Model T Club (either MTFCA or MTFCI) and enlist their help in tracking down and evaluating a vehicle. There are a lot of potential traps for the unwary when it comes to buying a 100 year old car. The car may have serious ($$$) mechanical faults or not be as represented as to model year and etc. I bought my Model T in August of 2018, spent a year getting it running and am still tweaking on it today (it never ends.) Be patient, do your homework and don't be afraid to ask for help and you will avoid the majority of pitfalls that could sour an otherwise wonderful experience.
Good Luck!
Thank you for the advice and it’s great to hear about other peoples stories and experiences, especially when it relates or has to do with some near and dear to you heart, like the Model T...
CORRECTED TYPOS...
Thank you for the advice and it’s great to hear about other peoples’ stories and experiences, especially when it relates or has to do with something near and dear to our “hearts” in my experience at least, like the Model T...
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:05 pm
by Sandow
jiminbartow wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:50 pm
You are exactly like me in 1970. Since I was 9 years old in 1963, when I first became interested in Model T’s, when I came across two articles in my new July, 1963 edition of Popular Science magazine (I can post the articles if you are interested). The first article gave a brief history of the Model T and included a picture of a Model T crossing a ditch and impossibly twisted in two different directions. The second article in that issue was on how to drive a Model T and was used by me, 9 years later to teach myself how to drive my Model T when it was completed. At 9 years of age, after reading those2 articles, I was determined to, one day, have a Model T.
My opportunity came in 1970 when I was 16, I saw a Model T advertised in the newspaper. When my Dad got home from work, I gathered all the cash I had and we drove over to Tampa, FL to look at it. When we got there, it was getting dark, so we looked at it using a flashlight. It was very Rusty, with bulletproof holes in the side, dented fender, rotten wood, rotten upholstery, broken glass and flat tires, but it was all there, original and for me, love at first sight. The musty smell of mildew, gasoline, grease rubber and age was heavenly. While I was crawling all over it, my dad was talking to the old man who was the original owner. He discovered it was a 1926 coupe. The old man wanted $650.00 and Dad talked him down to $600.00, which was exactly the amount of my life savings. We paid him and the next morning, which as a Saturday, we drove over with a trailer and there were a dozen buyers who had seen the ad and waited too long, because it was mine! With the help of several of the men milling around, we pushed my new Acquistion onto the trailer.
For the next two years, that car kept me busy, broke and out of trouble, as I spent all of my after school time when not working and all the money I earned bagging groceries at $1.65/hour on restoring the T. It became my passion. After two years, in 1972, after graduating from high school, I finally finished it. I didn’t have the resources there are today, so the many the skills needed to restore an old car like this, I had to learn it myself and figure it all out and troubleshoot any problems that arose, with the help of three Model T restoration books, which were among my first purchases. Probably the most exciting day of my life, up to that point, was when I started her for the first time and she roared to life. It was music to my ears.
I am 67 now and after 50 years, still have that Model which is like a member of my family and will always be a part of my life. I have posted a picture of my 1926 coupe that has brought so much joy to my life, as well as the 3 books that were of so much help to me, in case you buy a T that needs work. Good luck on buying the T of your dreams and welcome to the affliction. Jim Patrick
D7DC9CD8-4599-4B1C-89E1-B53563C8888B.jpeg
A002492B-EA6E-460B-9138-4A01058837C0.jpeg861A9A28-2C8F-4E30-8B81-E2EB570BBE6D.jpeg560D05CA-9512-4237-B7B4-75F2FF1025CA.jpeg
Thank you for sharing your story and experiences, as it’s very cool to hear about others who did similar things to what I’ve been wanting to do...
It’s great your still in the hobby and in possession of the car that started you off and I appreciate the pictures of the books, as it will make it easier to track down one for myself.
The pursuit of getting a Model T has brung many a joys and pains along the way so far, so I know where your coming from and so I’m working hard to make that dream and others a reality...
Thanks again for all the support
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:18 pm
by jiminbartow
My (our) pleasure. Keep us posted. If you see something you like, but are unsure of its’ authenticity or whether it is a good deal or not, post HD photos of all sides, the interior and both sides of the engine, as well as the engine number and the seller’s description and we will give you our honest opinion as to whether it is a good deal. We don’t need to know where it is. You don’t want someone to buy it out from under you. Good luck. Jim Patrick
PS. It is not always good to save money buying a T in poor shape, with plans to restore it. Parts are abundant and easy to find, but expensive and it takes a lot of time, knowledge and effort. Any money you save on restoring such a car will be eaten up fast as time passes and restoration expenses accumulate. It is better to buy one that has been restored, is an old restoration, or does not need much restoration. People who have restored a Model T but are ready to sell it, are rarely able to get back a fraction of their restoration costs. Restoring one is a labor of love and obsession, but not a very good monetary investment. I could probably sell mine for $12,000.00 to $14,000.00, but the amount I spent in time and labor in 1970’s restoration dollars, far exceeds that and I could never hope to recoup my costs, but that is fine, because I never plan to sell it. It is my family that will make out when they sell it after I am gone.
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:48 pm
by Norman Kling
I would suggest you read the book Model T Car which changed the World, and From Here to Obscurity. They have many pictures and examples of the various parts which changed over the years and also lists of the engine numbers and date of manufacture. Save up a lot of money. An early brass car will cost up to $30,000, maybe more if a rare car. A later car from the black era will be up to $15,000 in perfect condition and under $10,000 for a fixer upper.
The cost of restoration is usually higher than the price of a restored car. So find the best one you can afford and don't be in a hurry to buy.
Another consideration is whether you want the car for show or as a driver. Most show cars must be kept in storage between shows, to keep off wear and tear. Drivers are OK if a few scratches or dings, and you will need to do regular maintenance to keep it in good running condition.
After you decide for sure what you want, it is good to find someone in the club who has a car of the type that interests you, and who is experienced with the differences between models. And when you go to look at a car have that person go with you to evaluate the car.
Norm
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:19 pm
by jiminbartow
- B80F736E-5E72-427A-83B5-022D61F337A5.jpeg (41.09 KiB) Viewed 6705 times
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:43 am
by Steve Jelf
I have the book in Jim's first picture. It's also known as the Model T Encyclopedia. I also have the disk version, which is even better because of all the extras it includes. I believe the computer package now comes on a flash drive. I call it the best fifty bucks you can spend on a Model T.
http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:50 am
by Bud Delong
I think the best Model T book of all time is Tin Lizzie by Stern. If you do not have the love for a model T it soon will not be worth the trouble! Bud.
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:39 pm
by EricMac
Mason, I am glad to have you with us and appreciate your enthusiasm. It sounds like you have a great deal of insight into what you are looking for and why you want it. I once received some great advice from one of the "old timers " of the hobby. He said "only buy cars that speak to you and only buy a car if you love it. " I've always followed that logic and it's served me well. Best of luck to you and enjoy your car when you get it.
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:23 am
by ivaldes1
Welcome to the family.
Sandow wrote: ↑Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:39 pm
Looking for a brass era Model T Ford (16 and prior) or early Ford (N, R, S, ext) for my first vehicle.
Located in FL, but willing to travel for the right vehicle...
Don’t have a huge budget, but young and very motivated to get into it...
Thank you for any leads and good luck with all your projects, especially with everything that’s going on.
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:09 am
by John Codman
Welcome aboard Mason! All of the above comments are great advice; let me add my two cents worth. Rule one in the purchase of any antique or collector car is buy the best one that you can afford. It will save you a lot of work and money in the long run. With a model T you need to have someone really knowledgeable look the car over with you. If all you want is a fun driver, it may not be important to you if the car has numerous parts from other years, but if you plan to show it, this can be a big deal. Never forget that Ts were inexpensive cars that received a lot of their service from their owners. Most owners were not wealthy and sourced parts wherever they could. An unrestored T with all correct parts is a rarity. It will be annoying and expensive to replace perfectly good parts with other perfectly good and correct parts. Also remember that some brass era cars will not have self-commencers and will need to be hand cranked. As has been previously mentioned, the older the T, the more money it will bring in comparison to a newer model in the same condition. Have fun and good luck!
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:33 am
by Sandow
ericmac wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:39 pm
Mason, I am glad to have you with us and appreciate your enthusiasm. It sounds like you have a great deal of insight into what you are looking for and why you want it. I once received some great advice from one of the "old timers " of the hobby. He said "only buy cars that speak to you and only buy a car if you love it. " I've always followed that logic and it's served me well. Best of luck to you and enjoy your car when you get it.
Thank you for the advice and since these cars need a lot of love, I would probably totally agree. Thank you
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:34 am
by Sandow
bud delong wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:50 am
I think the best Model T book of all time is Tin Lizzie by Stern. If you do not have the love for a model T it soon will not be worth the trouble! Bud.
Thank you for sharing the book title...
Re: 16 and looking for a Model T as a first car
Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:35 am
by Sandow
jiminbartow wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:19 pm
B80F736E-5E72-427A-83B5-022D61F337A5.jpegA8453AF9-E998-48C1-AE9F-09F47BDA005C.jpeg
Thank you for the photos, that will hopefully make it easier to find it...LOL