Problems finding neutral ??

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
Larry e rutt
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:52 pm
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Rutt
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 fordor
Location: Ephrata pa

Problems finding neutral ??

Post by Larry e rutt » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:50 pm

Ok... so I have a 26 that sat for about 40 years, transmission is tight. If I put the parking break on it is almost impossible to crank though I can turn it .I can start it by jacking up the rear wheels and then after it warms up a bit hit the brakes..seems high gear is tight / stuck.. I drive it around town a few miles then park it, next morning tight again. It's been cold here in pa, will this free up when it warms up ? I took the cover off the transmission and watched the disengage and engage action.. those little fingers barely get touched because that barely move at all. Is this how that works ? Or should there be more movement there? Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated..

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Problems finding neutral ??

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:59 pm

The clutch contains 13 large disks alternating with 12 smaller disks. The smaller disks are turned by a drum on the main shaft from the engine. When the clutch spring is released it squeezes all the disks together so that the smaller ones turn the larger ones which turn the brake drum which turns the tail shaft, U-joint, drive shaft, rear axles, and wheels. When you pull back on the lever or step on the low pedal the spring is compressed, the large and small disks are free to turn separately, and you have neutral. BUT cold oil tends to act as sort of a semi-glue that makes the disks want to turn together. This acts as a drag on the engine, making it harder to start. It also makes the car want to creep forward when the engine does start. I expect this is what you mean when you say the transmission is tight. There are two things people do to deal with this. One is to chock the wheels and park with the lever all the way forward to squeeze the oil out of the disks, then pull it back to neutral to start. The other is to jack a rear wheel off the floor and let it spin when starting, so there's no resistance to the engine turning.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring

User avatar

George N Lake Ozark
Posts: 324
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:15 pm
First Name: George P
Last Name: Clipner
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Late '26 Touring
Location: LakeOzark,Missourah
MTFCI Number: 18665

Re: Problems finding neutral ??

Post by George N Lake Ozark » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:08 am

What kind of oil are you using. Not to start a fight here, but if you are using a straight weight 30 it could cause that in real cold temps.

User avatar

JWalters
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:34 pm
First Name: Jason
Last Name: Walters
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1922 Touring
Location: Missouri
Board Member Since: 2000

Re: Problems finding neutral ??

Post by JWalters » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:34 am

The original all steel disc setup will always drag on cold start no matter what you do.


Scott_Conger
Posts: 6428
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Problems finding neutral ??

Post by Scott_Conger » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:23 am

Jason

does your 1/2 page ad make you much money?
Scott Conger

Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny

NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured

User avatar

JWalters
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:34 pm
First Name: Jason
Last Name: Walters
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1922 Touring
Location: Missouri
Board Member Since: 2000

Re: Problems finding neutral ??

Post by JWalters » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:49 am

Scott_conger wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:23 am
Jason
does your 1/2 page ad make you much money?
Scott
Doesn't make me anything other than helpful.

Does your half page ad for float valves make you much money?

User avatar

ewdysar
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:48 pm
First Name: Eric
Last Name: Dysart
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1916 Touring, 1927 Runabout
Location: PNW

Re: Problems finding neutral ??

Post by ewdysar » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:48 am

That’s funny, I had never noticed the tiny print in Scott’s signature section until Jason mentioned it. However, the full color photos in various members’ sig section, including Jason’s, I find distracting from most conversations because I try to figure out what they have to do with the topic at hand. By what appears to be sheer coincidence, Jason’s advert directly supports his opinion in this thread.

That said, I’ve never had much of a problem with the stock steel clutch disks. It never gets too cold here, and I park my ‘14 with chocks and handbrake forward during the winter. When I forget and leave the handbrake on, the car can be a little hard to crank by hand until she runs long enough to open the choke all the way. The handbrake seems to have no issues preventing “car creep” when starting cold. And in my experience, with an electric start, there have been no issues with cold start drag at all.

Keep crankin’
Eric

User avatar

JWalters
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:34 pm
First Name: Jason
Last Name: Walters
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1922 Touring
Location: Missouri
Board Member Since: 2000

Re: Problems finding neutral ??

Post by JWalters » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:44 am

ewdysar wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:48 am
That’s funny, I had never noticed the tiny print in Scott’s signature section until Jason mentioned it.
Scott's signature is an advertisement of his product for financial gain. Mine is not.
ewdysar wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:48 am
the full color photos in various members’ sig section, including Jason’s, I find distracting
Then just scroll right past them. easily done.


Scott_Conger
Posts: 6428
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Problems finding neutral ??

Post by Scott_Conger » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:56 am

Just like yours, my signature line contains an opinion...just a lot smaller and with no pictures to distract
Scott Conger

Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny

NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured


Joss
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:46 am
First Name: Joss
Last Name: Sanderson
Location: Tucson AZ

Re: Problems finding neutral ??

Post by Joss » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:28 pm

You say the car has sat for some 40 years? If so the discs are likely coated with a varnish. Two suggestions might help. First is to drain the oil and add a gallon of kerosene - this is what the old timers did. Then with at least one rear wheel securely blocked up start the car and work the high low pedal in and out multiple times. Just fine to run for a couple minutes. The kero will clean a lot of the old crud. Then drain and put in fresh oil.
I have seen many an old engine come back to life doing this.

User avatar

JWalters
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:34 pm
First Name: Jason
Last Name: Walters
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1922 Touring
Location: Missouri
Board Member Since: 2000

Re: Problems finding neutral ??

Post by JWalters » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:37 pm

Scott_conger wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:56 am
Just like yours, my signature line contains an opinion.
Have you stopped modifying and selling float valves?


John kuehn
Posts: 3907
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Kuehn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 19 Roadster, 21 Touring, 24 Coupe
Location: Texas
MTFCA Number: 28924

Re: Problems finding neutral ??

Post by John kuehn » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:41 pm

Do as Joss says and if things still don’t seem right place the car on a flat surface. Place the hand brake in neutral position (straight up).
Try to turn the crank and if the car moves the clutch linkage or or the clutch itself might need adjustment.
If the adjustment is correct the car won’t move when the handbrake is placed in the straight up position. That’s neutral.


Topic author
Larry e rutt
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:52 pm
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Rutt
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 fordor
Location: Ephrata pa

Re: Problems finding neutral ??

Post by Larry e rutt » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:52 pm

Ok thanks.. I did get some good advice and suggestions, I appreciate it. I think I might hang on till spring and see what happens..if I'm not satisfied with the way it works I might try the kerosene as a cleaner.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic