MTFCA Forum

I recently purchased a 1916 Model T from an auction house. It appeared to be a recent restoration and I was concerned about the engine. I had it shipped to my home and I noticed no water in the radiator and fuel tank was dry. I drained the engine oil and found water in the oil. I thought it might be a head gasket, but after removing the head, I found the block to be cracked, right over the water inlet. I was wondering if you could put me in contact with an engine rebuilder familiar with model T's. I live in Southern Maryland. I would like to pull out the engine and give the motor/transmission assembly to a reputable rebuilder. Not sure if the block can be saved or if it has to be replaced. My guess is the top radiator hose leaked, engine got hot, and the block cracked. Appreciate any assistance.

Post some pictures of the crack. If its a crack between a bolt hole and water passage, it might not be a big deal. A considerable amount of water can be found in crankcase oil of cars that haven’t run for a long time and it can be condensation, not necessarily leaks.

That can probably be repaired but pretty sure it will need a sleeve as it goes to the cylinder. Are you sure its cracked? Looks like a scratch as its very straight. Cracks tend to be jagged

A crack like that is unusual but it can be fixed, more than likely will need a sleeve in that cylinder as well.

I assume when you buy a car at an auction it’s where is and as is and no gurrentee implied. But since it was supposed to be a recent restoration you would think there wouldn’t be any major issues.
The engine crack can be fixed and it needs to be sleeved. Old engines have been in worse shape and been successfully fixed. Good luck.

The crack is big enough that you can snag your finger nail on it. I cannot see it on the wall of the cylinder. Not sure if it is visible from the outside of the block. I will need to scrape off the paint.

I am working with the auction house and they are willing to reimburse the engine expenses. I am hoping I can find someone on the east coast for the repair.

Are you sure the cylinder hasn't been sleeved? From the photos, it may have been. Often, over the years, cracks like that were 'repaired' by sleeving the cylinder and nothing more. Metal stitching the surface would be an improvement. However proper sleeving of the cylinder is a 'fix' that has worked for many years on many engines.
The fact is, the crack may continue to grow on down the cylinder if the block isn't properly stitched. That could and likely would lead to future problems. But in reality, it may take so long to become serious that you could get decades and many thousands of miles good and fun use of the car before the block would need to be replaced.
One point. My advice. IF (big IF again) the engine is otherwise in good condition and running well and strong? I would run it and enjoy it. Being a 1916 (or later) block, it doesn't have the higher value of the HCCA acceptable pre-'16 engines or blocks. Those later blocks are more common, cheaper, and easier to get that one even several months earlier from late 1915. I would not recommend spending a lot of money repairing a post-'16 block. If the engine is loose, or the bearings bad? Get a better block. If the engine runs well, use it and enjoy it! And get a better block in case you need it later.

Earlier brass era blocks are often repaired, some of them from really serious damage. That is because really good blocks may be hard to find, and expensive if you need one. You should be able to get a good 1916 block alone for about a hundred dollars.

Some years back, I did see a sleeve repaired block removed from a car that had been run hard for many thousands of miles for more than ten years. The crack had grown and circled down the cylinder and across the upper crankcase and was headed up to meet itself outside! I would almost swear one could throw the block down hard and have it split clean in half! (No, it wouldn't have actually done that!) The owner was having a good replacement rebuilt for the car. The repaired block was still running fine up to the moment it was pulled to be refreshed, and only because it was a bit tired, but still running fine.

WOW! Thats a big crack in an unusual place. In one of the photos it looks like there might already be a sleeve in the cylinder. Can you verify?

Can you see the crack extending down into the cylinder itself? If there is a sleeve in that cylinder, then the water is likely leaking to the outside of the block and migrating down and into the valve gallery.

The crack probably can be fixed, but to what end? Around my local area, sleeving a cylinder runs $150-$200 and crack repair is about $80 per inch. A good block will be less expensive than repairing this one.

That’s a good thing they are willing to help with the engine repairs.
While the engine can be repaired do you know that it’s a correct engine for your car? If it’s a 16 it would have a non starter engine in it. Lots of the older non starter T’s have had a starter engine installed since they would fit. Of course it’s your car and you may prefer to hand crank the car. That’s your business of course. Just my opinion but a good block can be found cheaper than to repair the one you have. Good luck.

The serial number on the block is 1138196. I believe that means it is March of 1916. I just talked to Joe Bell and will send him pictures. I thought the cylinder may have been sleeved (since the crack is not evident in the cylinder wall), but I do not see a sleeve. Are they real thin? Am I missing it?

Give Pat Musante of Pats restoration a call he did my engine, and can help you figure out wants needs to be done. Here is his contact information
203-556-4119
pmusante17@gmail.com
Fitz

Thanks! I will contact him.

That's an interesting place for the block to crack.
I believe that's something we can fix.
If the block doesn't have a sleeve in that cylinder now it would need to be sleeved.
Which we can do.

I have enclosed two pictures of a 1912 Model T block that someone tried to repair with JB weld and our metal stitching saving the block.

A 1912 block may well be worth the cost to metal stitch something like that! A 1916? Not so much.

You May try Schwalms in Strasburg Pa. WWW. Schwalms.Com 717 687 6976 Not too far from you and I have been to their shop and does nice work.

Thanks. I am going to put it back together and see how it runs.

found this one on the net.
Wondering what the price will be for all the tools?

Just enjoy.

Andre
Belgium
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIKY--USk7Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XfTORBtcSE&t=32s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjuafE8aB3A
http://www.locknstitch.com/index.html

I want to thank everyone for your help with my recent purchase. As many of you mentioned, what I thought was a crack was actually a deep scratch. I filled the scratch with JB Weld, got a new copper head gasket, and had the head resurfaced. The head gasket must have been leaking really bad. All four cylinders showed signs of leaking out of the side and between #2 and #3 cylinders. Possibly the previous owner re-used the head gasket. With the help of Jim Golden, I got it all back together and running. Cylinder compression was 60-62 psi. The block may still have problems, but at least it is running and I finally drove it (first time ever to drive a Model T!). Thanks everyone!

Great to hear a report back of positive outcome! Thanks and enjoy.