MTFCA Forum

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:59 am**

New to the page. My 13 year old and I have really gotten into model Ts. He came up with some rules for a build I wanted to do and thought I would get some expert advice. I’m building a 20s racer and the rules are the parts have to be model T or model T era. Parts could be made but had to be made the period ways. I will admit I cheated a bit because of my welding tactics. Just seeing what people think.

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:02 am**

More pictures

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:33 am**

More pictures

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:54 am**

More pictures

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:05 am**

Beautiful work! I love the intake and exhaust!

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:00 am**

Looking forward to seeing more on the build. All interesting and looking good! Thanks for sharing.

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:53 am**

I’m really curious about the last picture with the worm gear???

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:38 pm**

I don’t recognize the trans off hand... but with a single sliding gear and the worm drive stickin out the wrong end... Is it safe to assume that we are looking at a truck underdrive installed backwards to provide overdrive...? Wouldn’t be the first time this has happened as this was an old salt lakes trick. But I question the ability of most T engines to pull the gear as many of the gear splitters for trucks are 40+%. Hopefully someone has counted the teeth prior to going thru all the effort to adapt

I’m more curious about the aluminum radiator...? And where the driver is going to put their legs with the motor moved back 18”...?

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:56 pm**

Certainly a seriously BIG radiator!!

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:04 pm**

Nice job! a few comments on your radius rod anchor points- the rear radius rod ends need to be in alignment with your u-joint ball where they attach to the frame in order to prevent binding when the rear end moves up and down. Same with your front- looks like you have two different anchor locations for the upper and what appears to be a lower radius rod. These need to anchor to the frame in a single location. What you appear to have will bind up when the axles move up and down.
At least you are at a point in the project where you can correct this. Keep posting progress pictures!

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:08 pm**

loved the 4 Holley NHs.

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:47 pm**

Les Schubert wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 13, 2021 10:53 am
I’m really curious about the last picture with the worm gear???

Kevin nailed it. It’s a tt under drive turned around.

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:56 pm**

Dan McEachern wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:04 pm
Nice job! a few comments on your radius rod anchor points- the rear radius rod ends need to be in alignment with your u-joint ball where they attach to the frame in order to prevent binding when the rear end moves up and down. Same with your front- looks like you have two different anchor locations for the upper and what appears to be a lower radius rod. These need to anchor to the frame in a single location. What you appear to have will bind up when the axles move up and down.
At least you are at a point in the project where you can correct this. Keep posting progress pictures!

Thanks I appreciate the comment. I’ll take a better look at the geometry the rear seems to stay free when tweaking it but that’s not under load. That’s just cranking the motor over while in gear.

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:00 pm**

The rear won’t give you issues until the torque tube goes in. Then you will be triangulated, just as your front end is now

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2021 5:06 pm**

Dan Haynes wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:08 pm
loved the 4 Holley NHs.

Thanks I’ll get into why better once I figure out how to get the cam to fit

1.700 intake and 1.500 exhaust valves. 9.5 compression head. The head is slightly modified also.

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:11 pm**

9.5:1 is a lot for a flathead... not necessarily because of the bearings, but instead the lack of efficiency of the combustion chamber. I have a hell of a time with detonation at 7.5:1 in mine. Make sure your cam has plenty of overlap to bleed off some of the dynamic compression pressure

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:33 pm**

Kevin Pharis wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:11 pm
9.5:1 is a lot for a flathead... not necessarily because of the bearings, but instead the lack of efficiency of the combustion chamber. I have a hell of a time with detonation at 7.5:1 in mine. Make sure your cam has plenty of overlap to bleed off some of the dynamic compression pressure

Definitely does had the cam custom ground. But I honestly don’t know much about Ts it may not be enough over lap. This motor is going to be a test motor just so I can learn things the hard way

same with the intake. It may work it may not.

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:43 pm**

With the 1.7 intakes what are you running for a head gasket? Conventional one is going to be REALLY close to the valves!
I have run a T engine with a VERY aggressive camshaft and ended up creating 4 intake ports to get a decent bottom end torque. Pulled strong to 4500 rpm where the valves would start to float with stock T springs.

Posted: **Sat Feb 13, 2021 8:13 pm**

Les Schubert wrote: ↑
Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:43 pm
With the 1.7 intakes what are you running for a head gasket? Conventional one is going to be REALLY close to the valves!
I have run a T engine with a VERY aggressive camshaft and ended up creating 4 intake ports to get a decent bottom end torque. Pulled strong to 4500 rpm where the valves would start to float with stock T springs.

Correct there isn’t a head gasket. Stock ones won’t work. I’m going to either make one or o ring the block. I really haven’t gotten far with the engine. I’m still figuring out the chassis and drive line. But as for the porting I did the same. The intake is oval but i machined out the ports and filled them back in creating 4 ports basically. When I get back more into the engine I’ll post some better pictures.

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:57 am**

Are you planning on running those carbs or are they just there for mock up?

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:26 am**

StanHowe wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:57 am
Are you planning on running those carbs or are they just there for mock up?

Just mock up 2 are nh 2 are Kingston.

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:40 am**

To the model T engine gods. I’m a fabricator, machinist, and a pretty good engine builder, I should say modern engine builder.
I really don’t know much about model T engine’s. So any advice, questions, or ideas, are welcome. I’m trying to learn the engine as I go. As far as I am concerned. I’m really pushing my luck with its ability. But experiments are how you learn.
Thanks Kyle

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:40 am**

I had noticed that you are looking at using a tt aux trans backward for an overdrive. What do you end up with on final? I think that the overdrive is a great idea.

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:04 pm**

John Warren wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:40 am
I had noticed that you are looking at using a tt aux trans backward for an overdrive. What do you end up with on final? I think that the overdrive is a great idea.

I ended up with a 1.75 to 1 over drive which is a bit much but I’m still going to give it a try.

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:20 pm**

Might want to calculate your final drive @ 55 mph to engine RPM (1750 RPM flat head), (2000 RPM overhead) is in the sweet spot. Possible 10, 9, 8 tooth pinion gear would get you there depending on your outer circumference of the tires being used. You will need a lower support coming from the top of the oil pan attachment bolts to help support the extra weight from that intake combo. They like to rip out with all that mass. You have a lot of intake volume there too, do not know what method you are using to calculate volume (manometer pressure?)or are you installing "Chokes" and going for appearance? Looking interesting Cool!

Hank

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:25 pm**

Henry K. Lee wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 14, 2021 6:20 pm
Might want to calculate your final drive @ 55 mph to engine RPM (1750 RPM flat head), (2000 RPM overhead) is in the sweet spot. Possible 10, 9, 8 tooth pinion gear would get you there depending on your outer circumference of the tires being used. You will need a lower support coming from the top of the oil pan attachment bolts to help support the extra weight from that intake combo. They like to rip out with all that mass. You have a lot of intake volume there too, do not know what method you are using to calculate volume (manometer pressure?)or are you installing "Chokes" and going for appearance? Looking interesting Cool!

Hank

I’m going with the stock pinion for now. But I believe you’re correct I’ll be going with a smaller pinion eventually. As for the intake ( I really should have taken pictures) the inside is baffled. Basically two carbs for the front two cylinders and two for the back. It does have an impulse port on the inside to try to equalize the intake pulses. I’m really not sure it’s going to work. Just an experiment to learn from.

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:42 pm**

I think running it without tires is going to prove exceeding dangerous
in the curves, and really hamper getting your built engine's power to
the pavement.

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:50 pm**

Burger in Spokane wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 14, 2021 9:42 pm
I think running it without tires is going to prove exceeding dangerous
in the curves, and really hamper getting your built engine's power to
the pavement.

actually I have a set of steel 27 Chevy wheels I’m making hubs for to fit the T. Also thinking about using T late model drum brakes on the front cable activated to the brake equalizer set up going to the rear.

Posted: **Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:43 pm**

Kile you can easily re-drill the wheels to the model t wood hubs. Use the standard hub plate on the out-side.

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:38 am**

John Warren wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:43 pm
Kile you can easily re-drill the wheels to the model t wood hubs. Use the standard hub plate on the out-side.

I should have explained better. I am using original T hubs. I press fit 1” thick steel plates on to the hubs with correct shoulder for the Chevy wheels and re-drill the rims. I’m planning on using the T outer plate also.

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:43 am**

Khill0105 wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:38 am

John Warren wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:43 pm
Kile you can easily re-drill the wheels to the model t wood hubs. Use the standard hub plate on the out-side.
I should have explained better. I am using original T hubs. I press fit 1” thick steel plates on to the hubs with correct shoulder for the Chevy wheels and re-drill the rims. I’m planning on using the T outer plate also.

John I just noticed your profile picture. Can you post some pictures of that car please?
Thanks Kyle

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:45 am**

What I’m going for kinda

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:47 am**

Khill0105 wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:45 am
What I’m going for kinda

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:04 am**

Bobtail racer, Nice. You can look at my build on the forum, Race Car Project. Thank you for sharing your build. Love seeing stuff like this!

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:55 pm**

I just did a little math and at 60mph with standard T gears (3.63-1) the engine is turning around 2450 rpm. With a counterbalanced and pressure oiled system no problem.
At 100 mph around 4,000 rpm. Again quite doable.
I really have to question the MONSTER overdrive!

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:52 pm**

Les Schubert wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:55 pm
I just did a little math and at 60mph with standard T gears (3.63-1) the engine is turning around 2450 rpm. With a counterbalanced and pressure oiled system no problem.
At 100 mph around 4,000 rpm. Again quite doable.
I really have to question the MONSTER overdrive!

I agree with you it may not work I’m just trying things. Honestly I’m not sure about the hole build. I know nothing about Ts I have a few but there all stock. Basically this is all an experiment and learning lesson for me. I just really enjoy building things and trying to figure stuff out.

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2021 3:54 pm**

John Warren wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:04 am
Bobtail racer, Nice. You can look at my build on the forum, Race Car Project. Thank you for sharing your build. Love seeing stuff like this! IMG_1932~photo.PNG

That’s really cool. Love it.

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:17 pm**

I saw this one on the internet today...

: speedster.jpg (36.84 KiB) Viewed 7141 times

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:30 pm**

perry kete wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:17 pm
I saw this one on the internet today...

speedster.jpg

. That’s really cool

Posted: **Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:33 pm**

I would like to to build a duel engine T but completely different from what I’ve seen. But I need to learn the engine first

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:55 pm**

More pictures

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:18 am**

Most definitely, LIKE! Dave in Bellingham

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