SAFETY WARNING for McLaren Manufacture 30 X 3 ½ Model T Rims
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Topic author - Posts: 284
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SAFETY WARNING for McLaren Manufacture 30 X 3 ½ Model T Rims
SAFETY WARNING for McLaren Manufacture 30 X 3 ½ Model T Rims purchased on 8/02/2007.
On Sunday February 7, 2021 while driving my 1919 Touring Car northwest of Sebring, FL on rural, washboard roads at approximately 30 miles an hour for several miles, I stopped to stretch my legs. Upon inspection of the rear driver side wheel, I noticed all 4 lug nuts had loosened. They were tight when I had left Sebring earlier that morning. After jacking up the rear axle to install the spare tire and loosening the rim bolts, all 4 of the rim lugs came off in my hand. These rim lugs are pressed into 2 9/32” holes each in the rim. (see photos below) Thank God for the stretch break and noticing the issue. I believe another few miles the wheel would have separated from the felloe causing damage and/or injury as well as loss of the rim bolts and nuts. My other McLaren rims have solid lugs attachments. PLEASE take the time to inspect these rims if you own them. I want you, your family and Model T’s safe and sound for enjoyable future touring.
RIM HOLES
LUG FACES LUG TIPS
GOOD WHEEL
On Sunday February 7, 2021 while driving my 1919 Touring Car northwest of Sebring, FL on rural, washboard roads at approximately 30 miles an hour for several miles, I stopped to stretch my legs. Upon inspection of the rear driver side wheel, I noticed all 4 lug nuts had loosened. They were tight when I had left Sebring earlier that morning. After jacking up the rear axle to install the spare tire and loosening the rim bolts, all 4 of the rim lugs came off in my hand. These rim lugs are pressed into 2 9/32” holes each in the rim. (see photos below) Thank God for the stretch break and noticing the issue. I believe another few miles the wheel would have separated from the felloe causing damage and/or injury as well as loss of the rim bolts and nuts. My other McLaren rims have solid lugs attachments. PLEASE take the time to inspect these rims if you own them. I want you, your family and Model T’s safe and sound for enjoyable future touring.
RIM HOLES
LUG FACES LUG TIPS
GOOD WHEEL
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Re: SAFETY WARNING for McLaren Manufacture 30 X 3 ½ Model T Rims
Are the others welded, or are they pressed too?
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
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Topic author - Posts: 284
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Re: SAFETY WARNING for McLaren Manufacture 30 X 3 ½ Model T Rims
Steve,
All appear to be pressed in. I plan to run a bead of weld on the back side of each lug for all rims to insure my safety.
Thanks for asking,
Dom
All appear to be pressed in. I plan to run a bead of weld on the back side of each lug for all rims to insure my safety.
Thanks for asking,
Dom
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Re: SAFETY WARNING for McLaren Manufacture 30 X 3 ½ Model T Rims
FYI concerning the McLaren 30x3.5 “demountable” rims that Dom has had a very close call with. No question, that was obviously a close call and a disaster was averted.
As many of you know I purchased only the “wire wheel” portion of the McLaren wire wheel business. I do not manufacture any of the rims themselves. That said I too have purchased 21” split rims and 30” demountable clincher rims from American Vintage Rim which is owned by Mark McLaren. All of the demountable rims I have purchased from Mark had/have the lugs clearly welded in place before plating. The pressed in lugs must have been used in a pre-revision product. Thanks, Mike Lebsack
As many of you know I purchased only the “wire wheel” portion of the McLaren wire wheel business. I do not manufacture any of the rims themselves. That said I too have purchased 21” split rims and 30” demountable clincher rims from American Vintage Rim which is owned by Mark McLaren. All of the demountable rims I have purchased from Mark had/have the lugs clearly welded in place before plating. The pressed in lugs must have been used in a pre-revision product. Thanks, Mike Lebsack
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Re: SAFETY WARNING for McLaren Manufacture 30 X 3 ½ Model T Rims
A word of caution - I've found cracks in the welds of lugs on original rims as well. It is a good idea to keep a close eye on any fixed lug rim you have.
1917 Touring
1946 Aeronca Champ
1952 Willys M38a1 Jeep (sold 2023)
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor
1946 Aeronca Champ
1952 Willys M38a1 Jeep (sold 2023)
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor
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Re: SAFETY WARNING for McLaren Manufacture 30 X 3 ½ Model T Rims
While that's clearly an issue, the lugs would have still retained the rim and it would not have let it come off. Demountable rims on other antique cars used lugs that were not attached directly to he rim, which is essentially what your rim became. What could have happened, is that the rim could have spun on the felloe while braking.
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Re: SAFETY WARNING for McLaren Manufacture 30 X 3 ½ Model T Rims
I would be checking other rims you have like that one by bolting them to the same wheel. If the rim/felloe combination is correct, all the four bolt have to do is maintain the wedging effect of the rim on the felloe. Fixed lug rims like that one are designed to wedge on the inner land on the felloe, with the lug standing off the outer face of the felloe. A mismatched rim/felloe may have the rim not being wedged on the felloe and the lugs become the driving/braking point.
Hope this helps
Allan from down under.
Hope this helps
Allan from down under.
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Topic author - Posts: 284
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Re: SAFETY WARNING for McLaren Manufacture 30 X 3 ½ Model T Rims
As previously posted, “My other McLaren rims have solid lugs attachments. All appear to be pressed in. I plan to run a bead of weld on the back side of each lug for all rims to insure my safety.” The three other wheels have only been visually inspected at this point. Over the next few weeks I will remove the tires and tubes from all the rims to run that bead of weld mentioned.
Mike,
Thank you for posting on this situation. Know that you and all of the vendors who supply parts to keep our vehicles on the road are appreciated.
Jerry,
You posted, “the lugs would have still retained the rim and it would not have let it come off.” Just to be clear, in my situation I did not take a photo of the wheel prior to removal. I also did not indicate all four lug nuts had loosened but had not yet fallen off. As I said, Thank God for the leg stretch and noticing the problem.
The bottom line here and always is to stay safe so we can have fun out there.
Mike,
Thank you for posting on this situation. Know that you and all of the vendors who supply parts to keep our vehicles on the road are appreciated.
Jerry,
You posted, “the lugs would have still retained the rim and it would not have let it come off.” Just to be clear, in my situation I did not take a photo of the wheel prior to removal. I also did not indicate all four lug nuts had loosened but had not yet fallen off. As I said, Thank God for the leg stretch and noticing the problem.
The bottom line here and always is to stay safe so we can have fun out there.
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Re: SAFETY WARNING for McLaren Manufacture 30 X 3 ½ Model T Rims
Super good post Dom!
Glad to hear you are safe.
Hank
Glad to hear you are safe.
Hank
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Re: SAFETY WARNING for McLaren Manufacture 30 X 3 ½ Model T Rims
For higher speed speedsters I have always used Jaxon (Chevy) wheel lock wedges on demountable wheels. Never had one come loose. Just my personal standard and nothing else.
Hank
Hank
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Re: SAFETY WARNING for McLaren Manufacture 30 X 3 ½ Model T Rims
Yes Dom, I agree, those other two factors could have made things far worse than I estimated.Dom Denio wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:10 am
I will remove the tires and tubes from all the rims to run that bead of weld mentioned.
Jerry,
You posted, “the lugs would have still retained the rim and it would not have let it come off.” Just to be clear, in my situation I did not take a photo of the wheel prior to removal. I also did not indicate all four lug nuts had loosened but had not yet fallen off. As I said, Thank God for the leg stretch and noticing the problem.
As for welding. I would suggest that the strongest weld would be on the outside face of the lug, and not on the backside. Additionally, the weld on the backside might interfere with the fit-up of the rim on the felloe. If there is no interference issue, it's probably better still to weld both sides.
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Re: SAFETY WARNING for McLaren Manufacture 30 X 3 ½ Model T Rims
The lugs came loose, and that allowed the nuts to come loose. The rim could certainly have come off in that case as the nuts were shed. Had the nuts stayed tight, the rim may have stayed in place. However, that would indicate that the lugs were hard against the felloe, and that in turn means the rim/felloe combination is not correct. That rim/felloe combination needs more investigation.
Externally welding the lugs back in place will not lead to a tidy looking fix. I would slot the rim between the two holes and use a heavy weld through the slot to weld the lug on from the inside. It would appear that in 'riveting' over those round feet on the lug, there was not enough material displaced to make a strong mechanical joint.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
Externally welding the lugs back in place will not lead to a tidy looking fix. I would slot the rim between the two holes and use a heavy weld through the slot to weld the lug on from the inside. It would appear that in 'riveting' over those round feet on the lug, there was not enough material displaced to make a strong mechanical joint.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
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Re: SAFETY WARNING for McLaren Manufacture 30 X 3 ½ Model T Rims
I haven’t seen how all the repro rims out there fit on all the original felloes, but I can say that the ones I have seen didn’t seem to fit quite as well as all original parts.
I do have to say that the McLaren plain rims used for non-demountables and wire wheels seem to be quite satisfactory.
With that said, I have seen many, many original rims with one or more loose and/or missing lugs and have to say that these things must have failed/broke back in the day too for one reason or another. The Hayes demountable split rims for balloon tires had lugs that were just swedged, not brazed or welded originally... Just because it was a new part doesn’t mean it will last forever and many different factors could have lead to the lug failure. Now if we start to see many of the same reports, that will be an entirely different story!
I do have to say that the McLaren plain rims used for non-demountables and wire wheels seem to be quite satisfactory.
With that said, I have seen many, many original rims with one or more loose and/or missing lugs and have to say that these things must have failed/broke back in the day too for one reason or another. The Hayes demountable split rims for balloon tires had lugs that were just swedged, not brazed or welded originally... Just because it was a new part doesn’t mean it will last forever and many different factors could have lead to the lug failure. Now if we start to see many of the same reports, that will be an entirely different story!
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Re: SAFETY WARNING for McLaren Manufacture 30 X 3 ½ Model T Rims
The wedging of the rim on either the outside/inside land on the felloe, depending on the brand, means the rims must be an accurate and appropriate fit. I can understand that reproduction of rims made to such tight tolerances may be difficult. Non demountable wheels, both wooden and wire, are not constrained by this accuracy demand. If reproduction rims are relying on the lugs and bolts to transmit drive/braking on the wheel, there may well be problems like this.
Allan from down under.
Allan from down under.