MTFCA Forum

Menards has some good stiff wire that ties and twist pretty good, Bob

Aviation stainless steel - comes in assorted gauge.

Aviation stainless steel - comes in assorted gauge.

Yes, that's what I have, but the .020" is too easily broken. That's why I asked. What size works best?

I have always used the 0.041" diameter wire with no problems, it works/fits for every location on the T. I definitely would not use anything less than the 0.032" diameter wire, but I prefer the 0.041" diameter. As you have stated, the 0.020" diameter will break too easily.

Adam told me to get the 0.041, so that is what I have.

Steve, In a pinch and if you can't get what you want locally try a building materials store that sells rebar. They should sell wire for tieing rebar. I don't know if it will meet your needs but you could check a local store. I have a large role of stainless steel safety wire I bought at Harbor Freight and it lasts a long time, so where ever you buy it on line get enough to last a while.

Try this:

https://shop.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/s ... afety-wire

Full disclosure: I have the pleasure of working at Van's.

Aviation safety wire as mentioned by others is good stuff. It is quite malleable and not as prone to breakage from twisting as other wires. Since we're talking aviation grade stainless safety wire, a good size guide is the FAA aviation mechanics manual AC 43.13-1B. Here is what the good book has to say:

"b. When using double-twist method of safety wiring, .032 inch minimum diameter wire should be used on parts that have a hole diameter larger than .045 inch. Safety wire of .020 inch diameter (double strand) may be used on parts having a nominal hole diameter between .045 and .062 inch with a spacing between parts of less than 2 inches. When using the single-wire method, the largest size wire that the hole will accommodate should be used......."

Notice that there is no specific mention of .041 wire in that paragraph, although the .032 is specified as a miniumum. The only specific mention of .041 is in the section on safety wiring cable turnbuckles and propellor mounting bolts. Since Model T's don't use propellors or control cables, you could just stick to .032 and be good to go.

@Steve Jelf - I'm a little interested as to exactly what use on your T this is intended for?

My reason for asking is that I seem to recall some discussion around lock wire disintegrating on gudgeon pinch bolts, hence people using split pins?

I've not looked, but I expect that discussion would be easily found. I've no particular view on this myself, but having used lock wire on many aeroplanes (without issue) I was interested to hear of this apparent issue.

If it is really a 'thing' then it seems to me it might be worth further research if you were intending using the wire internal to the engine.

Luke: The only place externally to use safety wire, as far as I can remember, is the wishbone studs under the pan. You have to wire the two stud nuts together to keep hem from packing out of the pan. Internally there are several in the transmission and ring gear bolts in the rear end.

Safety wire used on many more locations on pre 1921 cars. The closed driveshaft spool, the front engine mount engine pan nose cap are two that I can think of.

Oh Ya. That closed drive shaft spool, studs instead of bolts. Out of sight out of mind.

...and the two lower bolts at the fourth main.
The soft pliable wire used in wire tie hay balers is very handy. When not using it for safety wiring, it makes a good oxy welding filler rod. Just don't try using it for bailing out your boat.

Allan from down under.

Langs lists .040 stainless wire for a buck and a half in theit hardware section near the back of the (old) book. Cheers, Bill

Just in case anyone's interested I found a couple of the threads where (for gudgeon/wrist pins) the use of lock wire vs split pins vs lock washers was mentioned:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9272

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6381

I wouldn't say it was discussed widely, nor in depth, however it's something that is perhaps worth thinking about.

Hmmm,....call me crazy, but somehow, the two terms,...."safety wire" and Harbor 'Freight don't quite sound quite right to me!

2nighthawks said

"Hmmm,....call me crazy, but somehow, the two terms,...."safety wire" and Harbor 'Freight don't quite sound quite right to me!"

I wasn't going to say it Harold, but dittos ! The real thing is only a buck more.

Dick

I'm a little interested as to exactly what use on your T this is intended for?

The places I have in mind immediately are the four mag ring bolts and the four flywheel bolts. For the wishbone and the lower ball cap bolts I use the Standard Ford Repair Kit — ordinary baling wire.

Aircraft Safety Wire is annealed stainless steel, the annealing makes it less prone to fatigue and easier to bend without breaking
0.032 is most commonly used on Ts but 0.041 works fine too.
And try to buy or borrow the special pliers for it, it makes the work a lot easier and neater !!

Funny how long the plain old type non stainless steel wire lasted for all those years! Not all stainless is non magnetic, so you might want to check if first if you use. Yes I do use stainless on the inside, well most of the time.

fwiw, when removing the differential from my coupe yesterday I found the bottom two ball cap-engine pan bolts 'secured' with two strands of #22 copper magnet wire. The wire plus vintage crud kept those tight. Not a recommendation. I see Lang's has small quantities of 0.040" safety wire in their catalog.

Am I wrong in thinking that safety wiring is done to stop bolts/nuts from backing off? I cannot see how it can reliably maintain tension on the nut/bolt to stop it loosing tension. As long as the wire stays in place, it is doing its job.

Allan from down under.

Safety wire, if done right will maintain tension on bolts and prevent them from loosening. See: www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/48566.html. Jim Patrick

Thanks Jim. I can see how that will work, but I'd like to see evidence that that is how it was done on the production line. My gut feeling is that the safety wiring done on T's was just done to achieve the same result as split pins on castle nuts, to stop the nut backing off. We have the time to do it better when restoring, but it may be a case of over thinking it. This is totally understandable in the aviation industry where absolute safety is the pursuit. But, what might be the consequences of the two spring loaded nuts on the front wishbone backing off part of 1/6th of a turn?

Allan from down under.

Allan from down under.