MTFCA Forum

Hi , I came across this and would like to find out what it is.

Stearns Knight I think. Looks like a Knight sleeve valve engine.

I hope you get some definitive answers to this. Its a neat car and there is enough left to contribute to someone's restoration or even make a truck or speedster. If it is a Knight engined car there are a number of possibilities, several makes used the Knight sleeve valve engines. Stearns-Knight was a rare & expensive car, I have only seen one unrestored example. Whatever it is, it looks to be late teens or early twenties.

That steering column/tilting wheel spider/ lever quadrant should help nail the identity. Are there any clues on the hubcaps?

Allan from down under.

Looks like at one time it was a fairly complete car that was left out in the open and we know what happens to old vehicles that are left to the elements. Never the less there are some good parts left on it that the right person who needs them could use.

A big vehicle with a long wheel base. Dates from about 1917-1919. Might have been a commercial vehicle. Hub caps do not seem to be labled. Someone should be able to indentify the engine.

Engine may be an overhead valve one.

Looks like I was mistaken. Pictures of Knight engines show the spark plugs on top.

The steering wheel looks so unique I think that would ID it. FATMAN style? What is the contraption on the right side of the steering column? Could this been a emergency type of vehicle?

Correct, nothing on the hubcaps. Six cylinder over head valve. Aluminum block with engine mounts cast on. A friend thought it could be a Lycoming engine. I know in the thirty's, Lycoming used a flat head.

Probably a fire truck or service vehicle. Look at the switch box attached to the steering column. Looks like the body still has faded red paint on it.

That steering wheel would have been huge, suggesting it was a truck, but the curved frame rails to lower the frame over the rear axle are counterintuitive. The location of the fuel tank and filler also suggest a car, but it would have been a whopper!

Allan from down under.

Fire chiefs car maybe ? i don't see a stick shift, could the box on the column be some kind of electric shift mechanism or preselector box ?

Owen Magnetic, may be. That could be why no gear shift lever.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_Magnetic

Right at the base of the E-Brake lever is a circular bit that looks like the hole that the gear lever should go in if one was still attached. Yes, this is a large car and it would be great to ID it.

Is more info available?

There is a clutch pedal. The shift lever has been removed from the shift tower. I don’t think this was a truck, they didn’t usually have the gas tank where this one is and would not have had that fancy steering wheel. This was a big expensive car. You would have more luck identifying it on Facebook groups that deal with cars like this.

Helpfull information would be : wheel base, wheel size, tread. Big cars of this era 1915 1925 generally had models based on wheel base.

Just a thought, 24 Essex? First year of their six,

I would think the heat tube for the carb would be a big clue. Pretty unique. The intake appears built into the head or block.

Not an Essex. The 4s were F Heads & the 6s were L Heads. The Essex was a small car anyway. Its not a Hudson either.

A real puzzler. I know I have seen that steering wheel on something, just can't remember where or what it was on. The switches box on the side of the steering column was a common type used on numerous makes for several years. They were a quick add-on when a lot of manufacturers suddenly had to incorporate starters and electric lights late in 1912 and '13. I know a good friends 1914 Packard has such a switch box, and mounted very similar. I have seen similar switch boxes on a dozen other marques over the years. I have seen them on some cars as late as about 1917.

Somewhere, I have seen an engine very similar to this one. Again, I just can't place it. What bothers me, is that the front fenders, steering wheel, and the switch box all suggest a large car of about 1912 to 1917. While several things about the engine suggest mid 1910s, the covered overhead valve train would not be common until after 1920. I cannot offhand think of any significant producer of cars that had a cover over the valves that early. I can't tell for certain either way from the photos. But is it possible that it could be a 'F' head engine? (For those not familiar, an 'F' head has one set of valves down in the side of the block, the other set up over the piston, usually the exhaust is in the block, the intake is in the head.)
The wheel size also suggests something after 1920.

The size and shape of the drop-frame, size of the rear springs, placement of the side aprons and shape of the running boards, also suggest a car of the early 1920s. The front fenders could have been a truck into the mid 1920s, but I also think that the placement and design of the gasoline tank makes a truck of those years unlikely.

As I continue to think about it, I 'think' I have seen a steering wheel like this on an early 1920s Cadillac. The engine of course is NOT Cadillac. The steering may have been something available for a variety of cars.

Maybe this is made up from two or more different cars? Just an engine swap into something? Or maybe made up from parts of several cars? I keep looking in hoping that someone has come along that knows what parts he is seeing.

I see the mystery car is still a mystery!
John, when you first showed me the photos over the weekend for some reason I had thought the engine resembled a Lycoming but looking more at your photos I think the straight six Lycoming were mostly flat heads.
Wayne is right, it’s definitely a puzzler but I think I’m on to something. The block appears to be aluminum possibly Lynite, an aluminum alloy. I can think of only a couple mid-teens automobiles using Lynite engine blocks, Premier and Pullman come to mind but there may be others. The push button shifting that was pointed out earlier is made by C-H Magnetic Gear Shift and used between 1916-1919 so that narrows it down and was used in both Pullman and Premier.
These images are from a 1919 Automobile trade mag and are of a Premier engine and steering wheel. The engine in the image looks slightly different (probably due to it being a later year) but the round part on the front of the engine looks identical. The rear of the trans in your first photo sure looks like the rear of the trans in the image from the trade magazine.
In 1917-18 the Premier Motor Company offered an aluminum six-cylinder car with Cutler-Hammer electromagnetic gearshift operating from the steering wheel, marketing the car in an ad slogan “The Aluminum Six with Magnetic Gear Shift”.
The thing that’s a little confusing is the preheat pipe, I’ve only seen that on sleeve valve engines.
If it is a mid-teens Premier, it’d be a perfect candidate for a speedster project to enter the Great Race held every year.

I think you are onto something with the Premier.

Your probably right about hardly any support. These are the cars or what’s left of them that shows up at a swap meet and unless you find somebody that has another one it’s hard to sell. And as far as parts or body pieces you will be looking for a long while. But that’s the way it goes in the antique car hobby.

desertexplorer wrote: ↑ I see the mystery car is still a mystery! .....
The push button shifting that was pointed out earlier is made by C-H Magnetic Gear Shift and used between 1916-1919 so that narrows it down and was used in both Pullman and Premier. ... In 1917-18 the Premier Motor Company offered an aluminum six-cylinder car with Cutler-Hammer electromagnetic gearshift operating from the steering wheel, marketing the car in an ad slogan “The Aluminum Six with Magnetic Gear Shift”.
... If it is a mid-teens Premier, it’d be a perfect candidate for a speedster project to enter the Great Race held every year.

YOU GOT IT! Congrats. I was able to internet search and found a link to someone who had restored one https://forums.aaca.org/topic/106832-19 ... er/page/2/ Looks exactly like a 1920 Premier I copied the following pictures from the link and there were many more showing the restoration

Some more links https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/hf12 ... ing/280897 .
.
An AD on eBay for $2.99 https://www.ebay.com/itm/1920s-PREMIER- ... 3017916714
Another for $15.99 https://www.ebay.com/itm/1920-Premier-A ... 4168259394

John Warren wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:36 pm

I appreciate everyone's help and interest in the mystery car. It definitely looks like Wallace is on to it. It would be a fun car to play with, but also looks expensive to do anything with. I'm sure support is little to none. Thanks All. jw

What is the status of this car? Is it to be restored or is it for sale? I do not need another large project myself but it would be great to see it out of the weather & preserved.

A friend found a complete Grahm Paige chassis. The body was MIA. He is building a speedster. I would be an orphan saved.

It looks like the huge, tiling, fatman ype steering wheel was a red herring when trying to identify the car.

Allan from down under.

Pretty clear the Premier used the same engine, but I don't believe our mystery car is a Premier. The front fenders look totally different and the gas tank filler looks different as well, both in location & style.

Maybe earlier model , before rounded fenders?

Dallas nailed it as being earlier. I found a photo of a 1916 Premier and it is most likely a Premier running gear. I’ve cropped some details... the front frame horn, the four rivets on the side of the frame and the fender.

Frame rivets and fender.

Looks like it for sure, but.... where did those extra pictures of the mystery chassis come from????

Looks like you found it. Not sure where because last night I searched 17, 18, 21 Premier and could not find them.

That front fender had me thinking it was earlier than 1920 too, once the photos of the 1920 model were posted. Wallace has picked up on the details to support this. They are similar to late teens Dodge fenders in their construction and profile.

Allan from down under.

John, good luck with landing this wonderful whopper. Preserving this very rare car will be a worthy project. Please keep us updated!