Porcenlin liscense plate restoration
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
-
Topic author - Posts: 362
- Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:53 am
- First Name: Rich
- Last Name: Jesteadt
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1913 Touring project w. "A" crank shaft
- Location: SE Florida
- MTFCA Number: 50484
- MTFCI Number: 24737
- Contact:
Porcenlin liscense plate restoration
\Who does reasonable porcelain license plate restoration ?
It Doesn't have to be perfect, a little patina is ok.
Thanks in advance Rich J 561 262 0393
It Doesn't have to be perfect, a little patina is ok.
Thanks in advance Rich J 561 262 0393
-
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:05 am
- First Name: Ryan
- Last Name: Snellen
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912, 1919, 20's FrankenT
- Location: Nashville
- Board Member Since: 2017
Re: Porcenlin liscense plate restoration
Shawn with Restroe-A-Tag (www.restoreatag.com) restored my '12 KY plate. He does prefer to leave the back to be untouched in case there was ever question of the plates authenticity. If he can do this, I'm sure he can get the patina you're looking for.
-
- Posts: 850
- Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:25 pm
- First Name: Erik
- Last Name: Johnson
- Location: Minneapolis, MN
Re: Porcenlin liscense plate restoration
My father restored the Minnesota 1911 number three license plate below and is currently in the process of restoring a second one.
In 1911, the original owner drilled two holes, one to the right of the "3" and one to left, creating major chips, instead of utilizing the factory holes to mount the plate on the back of the car,
He filled in the chips with JB Weld as level as possible and then sanded the fill. He followed with body glazing/spot putty.
For the background paint, he got a digital color scan match packed in a rattle can at a local automotive paint supply.
The numbers and lettering he did by hand.
NOTE: He only painted the areas that are filled/repaired, not the entire plate.
First photo is before.
Second photo is after.
I apologize for not having better close-up photos. Both were cropped from larger photos that I happened to have in my computer.
In 1911, the original owner drilled two holes, one to the right of the "3" and one to left, creating major chips, instead of utilizing the factory holes to mount the plate on the back of the car,
He filled in the chips with JB Weld as level as possible and then sanded the fill. He followed with body glazing/spot putty.
For the background paint, he got a digital color scan match packed in a rattle can at a local automotive paint supply.
The numbers and lettering he did by hand.
NOTE: He only painted the areas that are filled/repaired, not the entire plate.
First photo is before.
Second photo is after.
I apologize for not having better close-up photos. Both were cropped from larger photos that I happened to have in my computer.
-
- Posts: 512
- Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:18 pm
- First Name: Steve
- Last Name: California
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 Touring, 1912 Warren Speedster
- Location: West Coast
- MTFCA Number: 50392
Re: Porcenlin liscense plate restoration
I had a sign maker exactly replicate my damaged 1915 CA plates. I carry the originals under my back seat in the event some authority needs to see them.
-
- Posts: 6411
- Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
- First Name: Pat
- Last Name: McNallen
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
- Location: Graham, Texas
- MTFCA Number: 51486
- Board Member Since: 2021
Re: Porcenlin liscense plate restoration
Is it possible to restore enamel signs and license plates with actual fired enamel?
-
- Posts: 3637
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
- First Name: Wayne
- Last Name: Sheldon
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
- Location: Grass Valley California, USA
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Porcenlin liscense plate restoration
"Is it possible to restore enamel signs and license plates with actual fired enamel?"
I am not an expert on this, however, I have read several debates on that subject on this and other forums in past years. The general consensus of opinion seemed to mostly believe that the required heating of the base metals would most likely have a disastrous effect on the long set original porcelain.
It may be possible, and could maybe work well? But most collectors I have spoken with have not been willing to take the risk of destroying the original by thermal expansion of the base steel. Nearly all the collectors I have spoken with use some sort of epoxy to fill with, and then careful painting to match.
That was what I did with a 'wall-hanger' 1914 Califunny single I bought cheap at a swap meet a few years back. It was in very poor condition with two sizeable holes. One hole was about the size of an old half dollar coin, the other about the size of a dime. I used some scrap wire window screen I had (carefully cut to size and shape), and epoxy to bridge the holes (the epoxy flows throughout the screen wires!). Then mixed enamel paint and clear epoxy to paint the surface. The epoxy and enamel mixed together well, and gave an aged shine that mimicked the old porcelain well. I didn't get a perfect color match (especially the red?), however the plate looks great on my wall from a few feet away.
Another trick? I used electrical tape, NOT stretched, taped on the downside (front or back doesn't really matter?) as a form for filling the holes with epoxy. The electrical tape holds well, and when the epoxy has fully set, pulls off easily.
I am not an expert on this, however, I have read several debates on that subject on this and other forums in past years. The general consensus of opinion seemed to mostly believe that the required heating of the base metals would most likely have a disastrous effect on the long set original porcelain.
It may be possible, and could maybe work well? But most collectors I have spoken with have not been willing to take the risk of destroying the original by thermal expansion of the base steel. Nearly all the collectors I have spoken with use some sort of epoxy to fill with, and then careful painting to match.
That was what I did with a 'wall-hanger' 1914 Califunny single I bought cheap at a swap meet a few years back. It was in very poor condition with two sizeable holes. One hole was about the size of an old half dollar coin, the other about the size of a dime. I used some scrap wire window screen I had (carefully cut to size and shape), and epoxy to bridge the holes (the epoxy flows throughout the screen wires!). Then mixed enamel paint and clear epoxy to paint the surface. The epoxy and enamel mixed together well, and gave an aged shine that mimicked the old porcelain well. I didn't get a perfect color match (especially the red?), however the plate looks great on my wall from a few feet away.
Another trick? I used electrical tape, NOT stretched, taped on the downside (front or back doesn't really matter?) as a form for filling the holes with epoxy. The electrical tape holds well, and when the epoxy has fully set, pulls off easily.
-
- Posts: 1513
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:47 am
- First Name: Herb
- Last Name: Iffrig
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 Torpedo, 1918 TT Hucksters
- Location: St. Peters, MO
Re: Porcenlin liscense plate restoration
Years ago I visited Harold Bowden. He was the guy who developed Kwik Poly. He used to be at a lot of swap meets with his product. The day I was there he was messing around with coloring some Kwik Poly to repair chips on a porcelain sign. I don't remember what he was using to color the Kwik Poly. If you have ever messed with it Kwik Poly it sets up hard and fast. It is also shiny but can also be sanded. It is the same idea as stated by others above here but the color was already in the epoxy.
-
Topic author - Posts: 362
- Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:53 am
- First Name: Rich
- Last Name: Jesteadt
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1913 Touring project w. "A" crank shaft
- Location: SE Florida
- MTFCA Number: 50484
- MTFCI Number: 24737
- Contact:
Re: Porcenlin liscense plate restoration
Thanks to all for the info. does anyone know what pigment can be used to tint clear epoxy?
-
- Posts: 3637
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
- First Name: Wayne
- Last Name: Sheldon
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
- Location: Grass Valley California, USA
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Porcenlin liscense plate restoration
I just used some enamel paint I had left over. Mixed about 50/50 for the final color coat. I didn't know what to expect, but I thought it came out pretty good. It has been hanging on my barn door for about five years now.
-
Topic author - Posts: 362
- Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:53 am
- First Name: Rich
- Last Name: Jesteadt
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1913 Touring project w. "A" crank shaft
- Location: SE Florida
- MTFCA Number: 50484
- MTFCI Number: 24737
- Contact:
Re: Porcenlin liscense plate restoration
Wayne when II tried to use enamel , the epoxy never completely cured !
-
- Posts: 3637
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
- First Name: Wayne
- Last Name: Sheldon
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
- Location: Grass Valley California, USA
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Porcenlin liscense plate restoration
Interesting. I wonder if it could have been a variation of the epoxy? Or the enamel? The enamel I used was Rustoleum oil base or a knockoff. The epoxy I think was the slow set two ton off clear.
-
Topic author - Posts: 362
- Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:53 am
- First Name: Rich
- Last Name: Jesteadt
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1913 Touring project w. "A" crank shaft
- Location: SE Florida
- MTFCA Number: 50484
- MTFCI Number: 24737
- Contact:
Re: Porcenlin liscense plate restoration
Wayne
Definitely trial and error
I'm sure there is color additive that is compatible to epoxy kinda makes it a 3 part mix !
Definitely trial and error
I'm sure there is color additive that is compatible to epoxy kinda makes it a 3 part mix !
-
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:30 pm
- First Name: Peter
- Last Name: Kable
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 Town Car 1913 Speedster 1915 kampcar
- Location: Australia
- MTFCA Number: 4
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
Re: Porcenlin liscense plate restoration
A two pack urethane paint such as used on motor vehicles now ( there is even a high end clear ceramic version used on top line cars) would be far better than epoxy clear.
Epoxy is great for protection such as lining corrosive substances but normally it is not meant for exposure to sunlight as is the car paint version.
Use the base color for the top coat clear and then coat it with the clear. Adding pigment to the clear will make it muddy and it will need a massive amount to cover any different color. The reason for a base coat under the clear is to eliminate this problem the base color blocks out primers and filler used to level the surface but has no great gloss the high opacity base color blocks out those coats and the clear provides the gloss.
Epoxy is great for protection such as lining corrosive substances but normally it is not meant for exposure to sunlight as is the car paint version.
Use the base color for the top coat clear and then coat it with the clear. Adding pigment to the clear will make it muddy and it will need a massive amount to cover any different color. The reason for a base coat under the clear is to eliminate this problem the base color blocks out primers and filler used to level the surface but has no great gloss the high opacity base color blocks out those coats and the clear provides the gloss.
-
Topic author - Posts: 362
- Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:53 am
- First Name: Rich
- Last Name: Jesteadt
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1913 Touring project w. "A" crank shaft
- Location: SE Florida
- MTFCA Number: 50484
- MTFCI Number: 24737
- Contact:
Re: Porcenlin liscense plate restoration
Peter
I knew epoxy doesn't weather well,Thanks for the additional Info.
I don't think there is any one place in the world ,that one can get knowledgeable info on any subject; from rocket science to computers to elementary question !! Thanks MTFCA .
I knew epoxy doesn't weather well,Thanks for the additional Info.
I don't think there is any one place in the world ,that one can get knowledgeable info on any subject; from rocket science to computers to elementary question !! Thanks MTFCA .
-
- Posts: 6463
- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
- First Name: Steve
- Last Name: Jelf
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
- Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
- MTFCA Number: 16175
- MTFCI Number: 14758
- Board Member Since: 2007
- Contact:
Re: Porcenlin liscense plate restoration
Enamel and porcelain are not the same thing. Enamel is paint. It can be cured by baking at 180º, a relatively low heat. Porcelain is melted glass. That's why it shattered when the original owner drilled those two holes in 1911. It takes a LOT more heat to melt glass than it does to cure enamel. Porcelain signs are still being made (see Ande Rooney), but I'd be surprised to find that anybody is repairing old plates or signs with new porcelain. I expect any porcelain repair done today is with some type of modern material as described above.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
-
- Posts: 245
- Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:14 pm
- First Name: Greg
- Last Name: Popove
- Location: Olds AB
Re: Porcenlin liscense plate restoration
Yeah, don't give that autocorrect any help at all.