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The Model T became such a success due to the assembly line which enabled Ford to build so many at a low price making it affordable for the masses. The Model K is a beautiful car. I wonder why Henry Ford didn’t bring the K back and start manufacturing them using the same assembly line method as the Model T. Do you think that, had he done that, the Model K would have also become affordable to the masses and as much of a success as the Model T? Jim Patrick

At the time there were hundreds of makes and how many exist even into the twenty's?? The T was the right car at the right time! Bud.

At the time, the soon to be largest manufacturer of automobiles in the world couldn't have only a two seat roadster. Ford offered tourings as well as runabouts from day one. This isn't the article I was looking for, but the January 1906 release regarding this N.Y. auto show story last paragraph says it all, "like it's little brother, is the lowest priced thing of its class ever offered to the public." Henry Ford to the core.........

The model K wasn't an aberration, but a testimony to Henry Ford's vision (in my opinion).

Jim

Try to crank a Model K one time and I think the answer to your question would be no.

The majority of people would need a starter.

I owned a model K with Rob for a short time. I'm much more familiar with the model T, and it certainly propelled Ford into the major manufacture status. They are very different cars, I very much enjoyed the model K, I had a great time on the New London to New Brighton run with Dean Yoder in the K. Each of the early Ford cars have an important place in history and I think all are important steps to the Model T. The model B and K cars are my favorites of the early Fords, but in the end the T takes the cake!

The Ford model K was quite profitable for the two and a half (plus) years it was produced. So, why didn't Henry continue to build them? I think the main answer is that it wasn't the car Henry really wanted to produce. The model T Ford was. It had taken more than ten years of experimenting, promoting (racing and other endeavors), and all the models and racing cars built before 1908 contributed to what the model T became.

Secondly. I think Henry was as close to a superman as almost any other human in history. He was driven, worked incredible hours, saw potential in other people and ideas, and had an innate sense of mechanical design. In those few years, with the N/R/S&K cars being manufactured until the moving assembly line was well operational, Henry did more than almost anybody ever had in such a short time! He bought the land (partially from model K profits!), began the design and planning for the largest manufacturing center the world had ever seen up until that time! He closed out, moved out, and sold the Piquet site, moving model T production into the first buildings at the new Highland Park site. Kept manufacture of parts and assembly of cars moving almost without interruption during the move and initial temporary setup of the new facility. Meanwhile, designing, building, and implementing the largest moving assembly line the world had ever seen up until that time. And don't forget the many lesser assembly lines (most of which individually were larger than anything else before!) to provide components for the new cars. Add to that mix reentering racing in 1910 through 1912.
It was an immense project, requiring thousands of small steps in the proper order.
And he was in his 40s when he did all that!
I don't think he had enough time to fiddle around with another car model and assembly line?

Good thread and points. A few more observations and opinions. First, another article compared Ford's K and N. Both were hands down less expensive, more powerful and lighter than any other car in their class in 1906 (and for the most part, 1907):


At $500 in 1906, the Ford N was the best horsepower to weight ratio four cylinder car on the market. The next closest four was Northern at $650. To put this in context, in todays dollars the N cost about $12,500, with the next closest priced four cylinder Northern at $16,500:


Model K at $2500 in 1906, was the only six cylinder on the market at that price. Add in a standard equipment magneto (Ford's own unique design, the worlds first working CDI) and one had to purchase a $4,000 Welch for more horsepower and standard features of the K. In todays dollars, a difference of about $37,500:


I firmly believe the 1905 Model B and 1906-08 K, like their Ford stablemates, were designed and priced to beat in almost every way, including cost, the competition in their market. In late 1907 Ford announced they were going to build both a four and light six car for 1908. One of the light six prototypes still exists along with press accounts of Henry Ford driving the light six around Detroit. My belief is Henry Ford and his talented team realized they didn't have the capacity, and more importantly need, to build more than one chassis/motor, and that "base" would allow any body configuration to be used, without complicating matters with more than one model/motor/chassis.

It's not what I know, but it is what I think...........

I think the question is would the Model K have the the long term popularity from the general public like the Model T did for so many years. Evidently Ford made the right choice and chose to go the affordability and simplicity route. There were lots of larger and more expensive good cars in the early part of the twentieth century that didn’t survive. The cars that did survive like Ford’s Model T did it because of mass appeal. The rest is history.

A few points (again, my opinions). The K and N(R&S) weren’t competitors, just as the Model B didn’t compete with models C and F. They complimented each other, helping Ford capture different segments of the market.

When Ford stopped producing the Model K, very few K owners bought Model T’s. They moved on to other mid to high end luxury cars (based on research of over 100 Model K owners).

Ford did move back into the luxury car market, several years later in early 1922 with the acquisition of Lincoln, continuing with production of Lelands Lincoln Model L. The first Ford designed Lincoln model came to market in 1931, running through 1940. For some reason the unusual choice was made to move backward in the alphabet, naming the new Lincoln model the “K” series.

If you read Carlton O. Pate's book "The Early Ford Encyclopedia", he basically covers all the earlier Ford cars, in the same detail as Bruce McCalley did with the Model T. The EFE is a really outstanding book, and when you read it, you can trace all the features that made it into the Model T from the very earliest ideas and usages of Henry Ford.
He also discusses the Model K in great detail. Contrary to what most people think, Henry did NOT hate the Model K.
But it DID have a LOT of problems.
Hard to crank with it's huge engine.
The crankcase ears tended to crack and break off of the crankcase.
There were also frame cracks and fractures from the frame steel being too thin, and the frame sides being too small for the weight and stress.
There were transmission problems, and rear axle problems, from the power of the engine over-running the strength of the engine and transmissions.
There was very little about the Model K that would have made it a great success like the Model T, even if the price could have been lowered.
It was expensive to buy, expensive to keep because of the heavy repair costs, and the comment is made in the book, that the reason so many survived was because they were stored quietly in museums, and no one was trying to drive them regularly.
The Model K was nothing like the sturdy, dependable, low maintenance Model T. I think that once Henry had a taste of the Model K problems, it cemented the idea in his mind of a small, durable, modest car that everyone could own. At least, that is my opinion after reading Pate's book.
If you can find a copy, you should definitely read it. It is in the same class as McCalley's book, and complements the information contained in that book with very interesting study of the cars that came before the Model T.

Oily,
Carl is a good friend of mine. I suspect he might be the first to say he has learned much about the Model K since he penned his book. We have been in constant touch, and I believe his opinion of the Model K has changed dramatically. To ride in one is to realize the difference. The car is fast, strong and for all of us who have toured, never (knock on wood) failed. Of course, someday one will fail. Meanwhile, how many 1906-1908 Pierce, Peerless, Packard, Stevens, Franklin six, or other marquee cars tour? Something to consider.............
I don't know, but I drive one.

"There was very little about the Model K that would have made it a great success like the Model T, even if the price could have been lowered.
It was expensive to buy, expensive to keep because of the heavy repair costs, and the comment is made in the book, that the reason so many survived was because they were stored quietly in museums, and no one was trying to drive them regularly."

I never met Carl Pate, but I do have his book and have read it cover to cover. It was written some years back, and some of it at least was based upon works of other historians. I respect Carl and his work very much. However, like many ground-breaking works of a historical nature, it soon needs updating, a somewhat difficult task when dealing with hard print media in large numbers. The more we learn about historic details, the more we know to look for, and the more we find.

One of the biggest errors in historic research (not any person in particular, but historic research in general) is that people tend to look at historic records with a modern eye! History, and all that accompanies it, whether engineering, politics, or culture, MUST be be considered in its historic context!
I have always said that fifty years from now, people will look back at us and laugh at how silly we were! Although, the way this world has gone the last past thirty years? I am not sure that anybody will even remember us fifty years from now.

Was the transmission of the model K a weak point mechanically? If you consider it by today's standards of design, it must be a resounding YES! However, in the context of 1907? The transmission was a weak point in ALL automobiles! NEVER forget, the 1907 Thomas Flyer (one of the most expensive and best built automobiles of its day!), that won the 1908 New York to Paris race required major repairs to its transmission twice before reaching the West coast! Mechanical technology was advancing so quickly in those days, that even comparing a 1907 Transmission with those of just 1910 is in itself an absurdity. Metallurgy, gears, shafts, and bearings, had all been improved about a hundred percent in those three short years!
Cars also grew in size a lot in just several years. A large Buick in 1910 was about the size of the 1907 Thomas. Engine mounts, and frame structure, along with wheels and engines all became much better refined. And a car of 1910 is archaic compared to a 1915 automobile.

I will chime in.

I recently transported a 1913 Ford Model T
Runabout & a 1910 Chalmers Detroit Model K.

Both came from California.
Both were dropped off at museums.

It was sad to see evidence of what might have
been if Henry Ford would have accommodated
Alexander Malcomson instead of fighting him
and forcing him out of the company.

I saw in the 1910 Chalmers Detroit Model K
the potential that started with the 1904
Ford Model B - the potential that
Ford Motor Company could have developed
a luxury car brand from the beginning of
the company.

There was a market for economy & luxury.

With Alexander Malcomson’s vision and
determination - by 1910 Ford Motor Company
would have had a spectacular luxury
automobile.

My interest has been renewed in “ Alexander “.

I met the owner of what he believes is the
only liquid cooled Aerocar ever made. at
Chickasha Swap Meet.

He has been studying parallels between
The Ford Model K and The Aerocar.

I suggested he look at similarities between
The Model B & The Aerocar instead.

He had never thought of that because
there had never been a largely original
surviving example to study before.

One directly followed the other.

“ Alexander “ has a lot of information to share
if folks would only stop & listen to what the
car has to say - rather than argue with it based on
what it says in book(s) written by folks
who are long dead.

FJ

Ford kept good records and a lot of knowledge was passed through the reminiscse of the fifty's before many of those passed!!! It is all there for any to read and also hear if one put's forth the effort!!! Bud.

Initially I thought, "I'm not going to re-litigate this." Then, I waited a few minutes, and thought "what the hell........."

First, A. Y. Malcomson was indeed one of the two major shareholders in Ford Motor Company. The other, equal largest shareholder? Henry Ford.

Now, why that doesn't make a damn bit of difference. I once sat on a board of directors for several years. The company was owned by shareholders. Just as with FMC, the shareholders had a meeting, once a year. We, the BOD, on the other hand, held meetings every other month. Some of our directors held ownership in the company, some of us, like myself, did not. Regardless of these facts, each of us had 1 vote. We did not vote as a board based on how many shares of the company we did, or did not possess. I doubt any independent BOD does.

At our meetings, management, the day to day leaders of the company, primarily the CEO and CFO, presented issues to us, usually with a plan, or plans of action. Because we were not "day to day" hands on employees, we listened to their proposals, and usually went along with their plan of action(s). That's how BOD work. They are not in place to determine day to day operations, nor even plan long term specific actions. They exist to provide oversight, and to give opinions from outside the walls of the company.

With that said, Malcomson was all but absent by the time the Model K was being planned, and was a "persona non gratta" when the Model K went into production. Malcomson had secretly signed an agreement with Reeves Manufacturing for 500 20 hp air cooled motors on November 1, 1905. He was already heavily invested in his new (and competing) start up company. When news of his company broke, in early December 1905, the Ford Motor Company BOD immediately drafted a letter instructing him to resign from the board due to his creation of a competing company. It should be noted, the BOD did not direct Malcomson to sell his shares of FMC stock (and in fact, they couldn't). They simply told him, in writing that due to major ownership in a competing company, he should not retain any authority over FMC operations.

There is one other aspect of this story, regarding Malcomson and the creation of Ford Manufacturing Company (the company brought on to build Model N motors) I'll save for an independent thread at another time, which deserves attention, but again, for another time.

The Model K (and N, which was very similar, in regard to steering, drive train, etc. etc) bear no similarity to the new for 1906 Aerocar. While Malcomson produced both an air cooled and water cooled model for 1907, his sole offereing for 1906 was a 20 hp Reeves air cooled engine, that was designed in 1903! The chassis included a non-spectacular simple steering design, completely different rear drive system, and three speed sliding gear transmission. Nothing about the Aerocar and Ford K (and N) was similar, except four wheels.

Had Malcomson somehow "forced" Henry Ford to build the Model K (and some times the Model B is thrown into this argument), wouldn't he (Malcomson) have built the same, or a similar version, of the car(s) he is purported to have 'forced" FMC to produce?

I could (and have, many many times before ) go on an on. However, I'll let someone who was in the room speak to the subject. After all, who would know better than another shareholder, who was, and remained, friends of both Henry Ford and A. Y. Malcomson the remainder of both their lives?


Once the rubber hit the road (some say all puns are intended......), the Ford Model K, the car HF was "forced to produce," became an immediate success, causing FMC to become the largest manufacturer of six cylinder cars in the world (sound familiar?) for both 1906 and 1907. Furthermore, the 1907 Model K was completely revamped, adding six inches to the wheelbase, a newer design body, 20% more hp, a much heavier, and trussed frame, and a flex flywheel system to allow more frame movement without damaging the drive train. And this redesign occurred long after any outside influence from investors may have been a factor (with Malcomson and a few other shareholder sales, HF owned well over 50% of FMC shares). What's more, and definitely more to a shareholder, 1906 Model K sales kept the company in the black, generating 85% of FMC's Fiscal Year new car revenue!


Meanwhile, Aerocar floundered from the start. Although financed with $400,000 capital (largely provided by Malcomson, who infused Aerocar with another $100,000 of capital following his sale of FMC stock in the summer of 1906), Aerocar struggled to meet sales for 1906. How do we know? Because Aerocar was bankrupt by the summer of 1907. Furthermore, Aerocar, and Malcomson found themselves in a courtroom in 1909, sued by Reeves Manufacturing for only taking 300 of the 20 hp aircooled motors over the three years Aerocar was produced, 1906 - 1908. Meanwhile, Aerocar did move to a larger model four cylinder offering for 1907 and 1908, along with retaining a 20 hp touring and adding a 20 hp air cooled roadster. But, all to no avail. Aerocar became a spectacular flop and faded into history. Meanwhile, the owner of that one water cooled Aerocar still in existence that was referenced earlier on this thread is a good friend of mine. I'm thrilled that this distant cousin to Ford will again be on the road. And that owner and I have shared information about his Aerocar, and we've noted how very different that 1907 Aerocar is from the Ford Model K.


Two very different "animals:"


I rest my case (for the moment........)

Henry Ford had no credibility ( literally )
when he set out on his third business
enterprise.

That - is a fact - that cannot be disputed.

The Ford Motor Company would have never
been capitalized without Alexander Malcomson.

But Malcomson wasn’t Ford’s first choice.

Oliver Barthel - who ( by his archived account )
was the sole designer & builder of
The Gross Point Race Car that brought
financial backers to Ford’s second business
venture ( that also failed ) was offered
10% in any future business venture by
Henry Ford if Barthel would finish his
work on the second race car and bring
a new group of investors who would back
the third company.

You can read about it here:

@ https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=16101

Regurgitated History Continues Today

Henry Ford was mindful of his Legacy.
He did everything he could to change
the historical perspective of events to
favor himself,

But - he was dead several years before
Oliver Barthel gave his Benson Archive Interview.

The Only Detailed Interview I Have Found.

Because Oliver Barthel was an Engineer
and a d@mn good one at that - he never
sought fortune or fame - just contributed
to making Life better for most folks.

For that - he was ignored & dismissed.

Just like Alexander Malcomson

By the 1940’s - no one in Detroit even
knew Alexander Malcomson was one
of the original shareholders & equal
22.5% partner to Henry Ford.

Thank God For “ Alexander “
The 1904 Ford Model B.


FJ

"That - is a fact - that cannot be disputed."

That's a difficult statement to dispute...........