MTFCA Forum

Last year I posted that I was experiencing some sort of clanking when I shifted from low to hi but also went away after you got into hi and running at speed. The noise is also heard when you rev out low too or step on the brake when going round a corner or turning around. Some thought it was a rear axle problem although it sounded very much like it was coming from directly below the floor boards. One fellow said he'd experienced the same thing and found that it was the bushing behind the U joint had somehow gone oval so the shaft was flopping around and only smoothed out when it ran at speed.

Things being what they are, I didn't get round to really looking into this until now. I climbed under the car to take a look and see if I could fathom what the hell was going on and then I noticed this.
You see that small looking flange sticking out of the side of my spool? That's the gasket spacer and it is sticking out most there so I thought that somehow the bloody thing got slipped out....but then I got to looking at the spool itself.
And it doesn't look to me like that spool is fitting properly on the axle housing. Has anybody every seen one of these slip on the housing? Because I think that this may indeed be my problem, the drive shaft has canted 10 degrees off center of the rear axle. My next question how is that possible or is it even possible? Do I have the wrong spool? My car is a early 1922 and I don't ever remember it looking like that after my last transmission overhaul.

You think I can just loosen the bolts some and "kick" it back into place or am I going to have to do something more serious, like rip the entire drive train apart and rebuild it?

You should assemble it as it came from the factory, i.e. studs, castellated nuts and safety wire, not bolts.

Also, you'll most likely need to align and adjust the ring and pinion gear mesh with the rear end out of the car.

I think it is possible you have a closed spool on a open spool axle. It won't work well.

It is an early spool on later housings, they don't marry together to give a correct lash on the pinion, find the right one and rebuild the rear end, the bolts are Ok as that is what is used on the later open spool.

You can use the early closed spool if you grind the lip off around the edge. The center sections/housings are the same except the early ones had a recess for the lip to fit into. Using bolts and lock washers would be no different then the later ones that were setup that way, BUT the threads are no long the odd thread pitch like they were before. They now are a standard thread pitch so you would have to keep the bolts that are now installed, originals would no longer work.
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I was just going to type just what Mark said about the closed spool lip. In your pictures it looks like the lip has been ground off the closed spool, this is a old time fix for mismatched parts.

If the step in the back of the spool has not been removed, I don't know how the thing was ever assembled, let alone having any where near the correct crown wheel and pinion mesh. Just start again with the correct open spool bearing housing.
As far as the bolts go, the originals are an odd thread. If yours are replacements, the housings may have been tapped out, or the bolts may be 10mm x 1.5 pitch. These are a very close match to the originals. I had to substitute short bolts to be able to fit a Moore Gearbox with 3:1 gears in my old buckboard, and 10mm x 1,5 pitch bolts wound in 9 turns before binding a little, and this was plenty enough for the job.

Hope this helps. Allan from down under.

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It is an early spool and it looks to be on a later axle housing and like said grinding off the lip makes that possible. Looking at your photo it looks off centered but it must be the casting that was larger on the driver's side making it look off centered. There is still a lip on the spool that centers it in the bore . Putting
it together by grinding the lip off would
not cause any problems and it would work just as well as the later spool.
If it is loose ,you can probably just slip the gasket back in and tighten it.

I was wondering about that spool myself. I know it is supposed to be the open style, from drawing all those driveshaft drawings. And I noticed that the rear axle was newer than that closed spool too. It's been on there for about 40 years now and hasn't given me any problems until last year. I was hoping to be able to loosen the bolts some and push, shove or even kick everything back into place. But I suppose I should drag that axle out from under my car and have a go at rebuilding it and get one of those newer spools too. Has anybody tried one of those open spools with the modern roller and Timkin bearing with the shims? Just wondering if that is a better idea or not. I'd like to get the car fixed BEFORE we move out of state, would make things a hell of a lot easier.

Our '26 had its axle and driveshaft fitted with the modern upgrade parts when we were very new to the T thing some years ago. If I can do it I'm sure you can, just by following the club booklet and the instructions that come with the upgrade parts.

The rear axle needs to be pulled to find out exactly what is going on. The spool may be incorrect for the housings, but it's a pretty safe bet that you will find several other things wrong inside.

Stephen

I agree with Stephen. If it really is off center, the gears will be misaligned which will cause wear. That could be the reason for the noises and it will not get better, only worse until it breaks completely. Unless you have auxiliary brakes, if it breaks you will lose your foot brake. It could also lock up, causing you to be stuck wherever it happens and not even be able to push the car.
So you need to pull things apart and rebuild. Also use the correct parts. If you continue to use that misaligned part, it could just happen again.
There is a booklet published by the club. One is Front and Rear axles. The other book is Ruckstell Axle. Both will give you instructions step by step how to rebuild the rear axle assembly.
Norm

Looks like the spool lip was removed. Thats ok. The only way it can move is by rotating. thus shearing the bolts. Are those correct later thread bolts? Have seen 3/8 16 used - too sloppy, but were holding things together. Cant move side ways with the early hyatt bearing race, it protrudes into the axle housings. Unless that race is gone. Not likely. But possible to shatter like glass. Pull a bolt & check the threads. Pull all the bolts & pry D/S forward for a look. If 3:1's you can only get 1/4" movement. Dont forget to remove radius rod nuts. (BTW that spool mod & bolt arrangement is what has to be done to assemble a 3:1 & early spool, cant easily use studs)
I did have a situation where it sounded like the transmission was stripping gears on deceleration. Swore the noise was transmission. Turned out to be drive shaft bearing & shaft race were chewed up so badly & gone that on deceleration/braking the pinion slipped out of ring gear mesh. Noise transfered up the drive shaft.

Martynn: The modern spool/Timken tapered roller bearing assembly is a well made and excellent part with clear instructions, fairly simple to install. I'm redoing my '26 right now, and other than pulling the drive shaft sleeve, it's been straight forward. If you have a quality sleeve/bearing puller, the sleeve vemoval is not a problem either.

Not complaining, but I note on the driveshaft tube drawing shown on the forum, the inside the tube rivet heads at the transmission end of the tube are shown countersunk, and this is not correct. Those heads protrude inside the tube and can interfere with the forward bushing removal tool. Some have used brute force bushing removal techniques and have sheared those rivet heads in the process. The tool the vendors sell and some doityourself recommendations give cautions to follow to avoid damaging these rivets.

Thanks for all your contributions to our hobby and best of luck on your rebuild. jb

You are right about the rivets & tool. Make sure the tool is lined up & clears the rivets before slamming on it. The tool i use was made from a 1/2' pipe cap with 4 notches. I still have to align those notches to clear the rivets. Have not used a vender tool, but i DONT TRUST nothing repo. "trust but verify"

I went to funprojects.com and it does not exist, when checking on the PDF.

Ok, those instructions are from FunProjects (I recognize John's instruction style), but like you said they're out of business these days, sooo, who makes these now? I know that John W. Stoltz has a couple for sale (one better than the other in that it doesn't require shimming, turning the spool actually sets the distance). Didn't see one offered at Texas Tee's and who can find anything on Birdhaven's site (I certainly can't)? Lang's used to carry them but I don't think they made them, but now they're not in their newest catalog either. Who else is making them or who did John Regan sell his business to, does anybody know?

I bought one last year through their old website. The list of suppliers in this forum appears to have been updated. https://www.mtfca.com/model-t-ford-suppliers/
Bird Haven shows Texas T Parts.
I believe I found what you’re looking for here: http://www.texastparts.com/mm5/merchant ... e=RearAxle

The 2021 Lang's and Mac's catalogs both list them, as to availability you would need to check. I suggest getting the adjustable version to enable more precise setting of gear mesh. jb

Dave at Chaffins Garage has them, be a about 35 days or so. Ordered on Friday and he has the cores at the machine shop now. Send in your core and he provides a nice modern pinion bearing, have used his!