Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

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BLB27
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Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by BLB27 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:25 pm

We have removed the body and engine. My grandsons (18 and 21) and I want to paint the frame. I have questions and need suggestions/comments on how to proceed. I will have a shop blast clean it.

1) We do not have spray painting equipment. Is brush/spray can painting a reasonable alternative for both the prime and top coats?

2) Is either method (brush or spray can) ok for both coats or is one method better than the other for either the prime or top coats?

3) What types of paint should we use? How many coats? The finish coat will be black.

4) Should the springs be taken apart/cleaned/lubricated before painting?
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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by Norman Kling » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:28 pm

For a frame and axles a spray can will do fine. Brush will do the job, however, you will see brush strokes. Most important thing is to do any welding or other repair such as straightening the frame and be sure ALL the oil and grease is completely removed first. Also any rust should be removed with rust remover or sandblasted. Then spray on the primer and lightly sand then the final coat. Use paint made for metal to be used outdoors. You should be able to find it in a good paint store (not necessarily in a hardware store) Or a good auto parts store should carry it.
I disassembled the front and rear springs and painted and then packed with grease between the leaves before assembly.
Norm


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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by John kuehn » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:33 pm

As far as painting the cleaned up frame be sure to prime it fairly quick as it will quickly start to rust. Some will prefer to spray it but you can brush on the primer and the finish black coat and have a nice job.
Some prefer to clean up the frame and the springs at the same time. That’s up yo you but if your blasting all the spring leaves and and frame at the same time it’s convenient to get it all cleaned up at the same time but that’s up to your time and place to do it.

You will get different ideas about which type of paint to use also. For me Rustoleum black that’s used on machinery, farm equipment and etc works well and looks good also. It’s durable paint that lasts a good while.

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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by Tim Rogers » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:51 pm

I did the frame below with a brush and rustoluem satin black...

20160831_153104.jpg
<o><o><o><o> Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks - Forum member since 2013 <o><o><o><o>


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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by John kuehn » Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:12 pm

I bought the Rustoleum black I used at the local Tractor supply farm and ranch store. They have all the primer, paint that’s needed for painting trailers, machinery, tractors and etc. and of course as Norm mentioned other places have it also.


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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by Harry Lillo » Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:28 pm

If you have a local powder coating company you may want to check with them on a completed cost.
Sometimes it is not a lot more to blast and powder coat as compared to blasting costs alone.
Harry


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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by ThreePedalTapDancer » Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:33 pm

I agree with powder coating. Drop off your frame and associated parts, and they will sandblast and powdercoat them for you. They will be much more durable and look a lot better than an amateur brush job when done correctly. I’ve done multiple chassis restorations using powdercoat.

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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by TRDxB2 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:27 am

Regardless of how your going to get things painted take good pictures of everything as you disassemble -
If your going to powder coat then be clear on what your going to get done and not have done. Preparation is your job.
Once you have everything ready to give the shop, take pictures of what your giving them at their shop (easier than writing it down). Also eliminates any doubt them getting it or not.
You'll need to take everything, I mean most everything apart. What every you give them to do, you'll need to understand what they may require you to do - tape all threads and bearing surfaces (duct or gorilla tape); remove spindles and spindle arms from the front axle and take them completely apart (perches stay): plug all holes that you don't want sand or powder coated to get into. String all nuts and bolts on a strip of bailing wire.
This will allow you to the frame, front axle, wishbone, radius and brake rods.
If your planning to rebuild the rear axle and drive shaft housings you should remove all internal parts and bolt everything back together. You don't want anything to get on the mating surfaces of the pumpkin, spool and drive shaft ends or ball cap (tape). That will change measurements when reassembling.
Do not powder coat the springs, shackles or wire wheels.
Also and deep pitting will show once powder coated. When you put things back together bolt holes will need to be reamed a bit due to the thickness of the primer & paint.
Here is a link and paining the springs https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php? ... gs#p118068

Hope others provide input on preparation and what to do and not do
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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by jab35 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:18 am

If you plan to show your car, I'd recommend the powdercoat process. If it were my car that I plan to drive on salt free roads and streets, I would wire brushor hire it blasted and use Rustoleum rusty primer/black topcoat and brush application for frame and chasis. If blasting is available, I'd look into it but probably brush paint. Getting parts clean and the primer coat done well with 100% coverage is most important. I like Tim's approach.


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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by Harry Lillo » Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:54 am

Frank,
I am curious as to why you would not powder coat springs or wire wheels?
Harry


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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by ThreePedalTapDancer » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:09 am

I have powder coated wire wheels and springs with no issues to report. Even though they are baked to cure the powdercoat, it’s not hot enough to worry. Problems with powdercoat often come from bad prep or sandblasting, poor quality powder, and too thick of coating. You also have to specify what you want masked from the powder, such as threaded holes or anywhere else powdercoat shouldn’t be on.


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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by speedytinc » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:31 am

Only thing i powder coat is 26-27 wire wheels. Scuff inside of rim for tire bead.
If you coat the frame, be prepared to redrill every mounting hole & grind areas bare for grounding issues.
My preference is disassemble everything, & paint with a good semigloss black.
Springs typically require special attention. Those worn leaf areas should be ground smooth to not inhibit travel.
paint individual leafs.
I have been lubricating with mckay graphite spray. It drys to a hard surface like a paint. Apply several coats where spring leafs ride.(bottom side of smaller leafs.) Springs dont get that wet oozy look.

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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by TRDxB2 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:56 am

Harry Lillo wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:54 am
Frank,
I am curious as to why you would not powder coat springs or wire wheels?
Harry
There have been several discussion about the pro's and con's of doing them. No question about appearance and the flow filling in pit marks. Just a few links ID the "cautions". To each his own
Wheels Google powder coating wire wheels MTFCA
chipping and matching the paint viewtopic.php?t=1969
Hub fitting http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/82 ... 1533439296
tire slipping http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/59 ... 1475454899
Pro'&Con's for each https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14001
Leaf Springs Google powder coat springs MTFCA
I question the expense vs benefit .
Minimal exposed area, thicker surface/spring clamp fit,are slippery but if applying slip paint then why needed.
There was one caution on heat treating but that was dismissed just check it out with the painter http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80 ... 1250956867
I painted these with Rustoleum Farm & Implement International Harvester White Enamel Paint - It has cured very hard and looks good and I enjoyed doing it - this is the extra spare tire. I am not wanting my project car to have an over-the-top finish, just one that looks like it might have been.
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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by Mark Gregush » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:02 pm

Springs should be metal to metal with some type of lube such as slip glide, graphite or grease between the leafs to allow free movement between the leafs. Paint or powder coating diminishes that movement.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :shock:

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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by jiminbartow » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:59 pm

I never sandblast, because it alters the original smooth steel surface to a very rough, grainy surface. If the paint that is on there is still good, with no rust present, you can clean off the old grease and dirt with mineral spirits, sand the paint down to a new layer and brush paint with gloss black enamel. You can paint enamel over lacquer, but you cannot paint lacquer over enamel. If the old paint is too far gone, and it needs to be removed, it is best to strip off the old paint with Jasco gel type paint remover with a wash of lacquer thinner. If there is any rust under the paint, clean with several applications of Muriatic acid and once all the rust is off, neutralize and flush well with a mixture of baking soda in water until it stops bubbling. Make sure to allow the baking soda solution to seep in under the riveted joints to neutralize the acid between the joints then rinse with clean water. To prevent flash rust from forming after rust removal, dry with a towel and quick dry using the high setting of a heat gun. About 1,200 degrees F.

Best to apply primer and paint by brush in order to dab the coatings into hard to reach places under riveted parts. Spray coating these hard to reach areas may leave bare spots. Brush Prime with a good quality Red oxide primer such as Porter Paints red oxide primer and brush on a good gloss black enamel. I like Sherwin Williams gloss black enamel as it levels out very smoothly when brushed on. Gloss is best because it is very smooth and slick which sheds dirt, road grime and oil film more easily. Jim Patrick

PS. In the below photo, the spokes were brushed with the gloss black enamel and you can see how well the enamel leveled out to a smooth shiny surface without brush marks.

EF9802FF-C709-4E98-9CE7-43EE6E37C630.jpeg
Last edited by jiminbartow on Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by DHort » Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:15 pm

Make sure they do not powdercoat the inside of a wire wheel. It will no longer fit on the hub. You will have to remove it - not fun.

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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by TRDxB2 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:16 pm

What JIMINBARTOW expresses is the reason I have a T. It is for me to do the work on it, learn how to do things, take satisfaction in the result, redo things better than I did the first time as my skills increase. There are things I don't know how to do and those I may have to get others to do, but before I make that decision I'll learn as much as I can.
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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by jiminbartow » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:48 pm

Frank. Like many here, I bought my first T before there were any resources that one could reach out to for help. I did a complete restoration on my 1926 coupe starting when I bought it in 1970 for my life savings of $600.00 when I was 16. It was in terrible garage find condition and had obviously sat out in a field somewhere, for it was used for target practice by someone who owned a 45. It was deeply pitted with rust, rusted out all around the bottom and dented with broken glass and rotten wood, but it was complete and I loved it. Back then, there was not the resources we have today and there was no one to ask. I bought the books and would read late into the night in preparation for the next challenge. It would have been nice to have the forum back then to ask how to do something but then, I would not have learned what I did through trial and error. Happily, I was mechanically inclined from my days fixing our lawn mower, go cart and Evinrude outboard motor engines and could always look at a job and figure out what needed to be done and how. Sometimes I had to guess, but was almost always right in what I did. My restoration took me two full years. Had I spent as much time studying for school as I did studying my Model T books and working on my T, I would have graduated with an 4.0 average instead of a C-, but the life lessons I learned from working on my T, you can’t learn in any classroom. Ingenuity, patience, determination, setting and meeting goals and deadlines, triumphs and setbacks, not quitting and the satisfaction and pride of seeing a project through. It is also probably what caused me to join the Marines as soon as I finished my T and graduated from High School for those are all qualities instilled in boot camp. Jim Patrick


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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by BLB27 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:56 pm

Thanks to everyone for the comments/suggestions. They are very helpful. I welcome more that may come!


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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by John kuehn » Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:15 pm

Here is another view since you asked! There are some some restorers that build and paint their cars mostly for car shows. The term used for those cars are trailer queens because they bring the cars which don’t really get much use other than showing them.
Then there are folks who do a good job restoring a car to drive and to look nice.
I can remember years ago a friend of mine has his 14 Touring painted and after he went to look at it he was surprised how it looked to much like plastic which was his way of saying it was over done he later told me.
You will get different view points on restoring a T and what to do but the thing to remember it’s your car and your money and how you do it is totally up to you.

Me? My cars are good looking drivers that are mechanically sound I’m not afraid to get dirty and will get me where I want to go. And it’s my humble opinion.


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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by BLB27 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:50 pm

I plan to sandblast the frame/axle. I am considering using Rust-Oleum to brush paint it. Attached are two photos of the prime and finish coats.

I would appreciate comments on this plan.

Note there are two different prime coats shown. Comments regarding which of those to use would also would be helpful. The one for clean/slightly rusted metal is white. I would hope to find it in another color.
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20210405_152659.jpg
20210405_151559.jpg

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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:10 pm

I've always painted chassis parts with satin black Rustoleum from a rattle can. (I think glossy paint on a chassis looks ridiculous.) I use two coats with no primer, and it's fine. I think sandblasting chassis parts is OK. In fact, I believe if you sandblasted one rear axle housing and used paint remover and rust remover on the other, after they were painted you couldn't tell the difference.

Some people paint the springs as a unit. I take them apart, paint the individual leaves, and apply Slip Plate on the bottom of each leaf above the bottom one.
IMG_0359 copy.JPG
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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by BLB27 » Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:21 pm

Steve, Why no primer?

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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:23 pm

With this paint it's not needed. I've used Rustoleum on bare chassis parts for many years, and it has held up quite well. The exception is modern hardware (nuts, washers, bolts). You have to strip off the cad plating for any paint to stick to them.
The inevitable often happens.
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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by katmankingkat » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:15 pm

I get a kick out of ads like this. Restored completely original. Powder coated frame, front and rear axles etc. So did Henry use powder coat?


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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by BLB27 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:21 pm

Lets have votes on use of flat, semi-gloss, satin, and gloss for the frame. Are brush marks the same for each? I wonder what the finish was on the original black frame paint.

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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by DanTreace » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:32 pm

If your desire is to 'factory' type restoration, the frame and chassis parts, rear axle, front axle, etc. were done in shiny gloss black, oven dried paint, similar in gloss sheen to today's enamel, acrylic enamel, or epoxies. Better results for me has been with sandblast metal, then spray gun applications of dark primer, and finish of black acrylic enamel, with gloss hardener catalyst added for toughness and quick dry.

Rear axles after leaving oven baking of finish.
203677.jpg
Shiny gloss black frames.
203724.jpg
Really your choice on how to finish. Current project is to replicate a 'barn type' or aged T, so this 1914 frame was just wire brushed to remove minor surface rust, and then spray rattle can painted with Rustoleum Rust Reformer, a satin black primer that bonds to rust and converts it to inert state, yet has good hardness too. Can be covered with a finish coat if desired, but in this project will leave it flat/satin.
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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by jiminbartow » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:53 am

Being so close to the road, the idea behind painting the frame, axles, and linkage with gloss paint is not to impress anyone going under there to admire the paint job, but is more for utilitarian reasons. In being gloss, it is slick and more easily sheds mud, dirt, oil film and road film which, if allowed to remain, can start to deteriorate the paint and allowing the formation of rust. My recommendation to paint it with gloss, has not changed. Jim Patrick
Last edited by jiminbartow on Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Questions About Painting the Frame of a 1927 Coupe

Post by jiminbartow » Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:09 pm

Bump back to the top

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