MTFCA Forum

My engine was rebuilt at some point a long time ago. It has .020 over cast iron pistons. The pistons have no markings on them anywhere. My valve lifters have depressions in the tops that the valves sit in. They are all the same, and appear to be made this way. So, my questions are:
How do I measure valve clearance with these lifters?
When did they stop using cast iron replacement pistons?
What do these letters stamped in the deck mean?

Lifters usually wear from flat to a cup on the top, making adjustment difficult/hit and miss. Your lifters do look like they were machined that way. I have no idea why. They do not look like standard T issue.

Allan from down under.

I would bet the lifters were machined flat before. They often wear that way. I dress them flat very carefully with a bench grinder when I rework an engine. Provided of course they have not become too short to reach the valve stems with proper clearance. The other best option is to buy good adjustable lifters. Plenty long and easy to adjust.
Cast iron replacement pistons were still being sold into the 1960s, and I think manufactured still in the 1950s. It is amazing to think today how many model T parts were still available at the local auto supply store only sixty years ago.

Honestly, I would replace those lifters with the adjustable style. My suggestion would be the style that uses the lock nut. From experiences with a friend's T, the "self locking" thread style does not seem to be so self locking over time.

I agree that the ones you have appear to have been made that way. If you still want to use them, I would carefully grind them flat. But again, once you consider the chore of doing that, getting new adjustables may seem the way to go.

How hard is it to replace the lifters with the engine in the car?

Unless you are replacing all valve train parts you could and should time the valves. You would not have to replace anything then. And will probably get better performance than setting by feeler gage. Dan

Pull radiator, timing cover, head, manifolds, valve covers, valves & springs. Remove dipper cover. Rotate cam to get lifters up. Pull lifters up as far as possible, hold up with clothes pins. Pull cam. One @ a time remove/replace lifter. Good time to replace cam if desired & clean & lap valves. Whall this far down - complete valve job. To get to the last 2 valves, is easiest to remove firewall, wind shield & steering gear. Check cam bearings.
Reverse process to reassemble. Adjust valves.

Yes, its a fair size job, but very doable.

If there are any transmission or other issues, you should consider pulling the motor & doing a complete tear down.
O HOW THE JOB HAS GROWN.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:56 am

Pull radiator, timing cover, head, manifolds, valve covers, valves & springs. Remove dipper cover. Rotate cam to get lifters up. Pull lifters up as far as possible, hold up with clothes pins. Pull cam. One @ a time remove/replace lifter. Good time to replace cam if desired & clean & lap valves. Whall this far down - complete valve job. To get to the last 2 valves, is easiest to remove firewall, wind shield & steering gear. Check cam bearings.
Reverse process to reassemble. Adjust valves.

Yes, its a fair size job, but very doable.

If there are any transmission or other issues, you should consider pulling the motor & doing a complete tear down.
O HOW THE JOB HAS GROWN.

I currently have the firewall off, all valves are being replaced. The engine ran quietly, but the valves are SHOT, and so compression was low, and it was very hard to start. Pistons and rings are like new, and so are the bearings.

Sometimes it's best to draw a line as to how far you want to go. I'm trying to fix what is wrong and go drive.

If guides are worn & you have lifters out, you can knurl the guides. I prefer a knurl job over automatically going to over sized valve stems if not excessively worn.

Lifters made the way yours are are nearly impossible to set the gap with feeler gauges, but you can use the piston position method. I would have to look up the dimensions, but you would turn the engine until the piston is a certain distance from the deck. Then grind the valve stem until the lobe on the cam is just beginning to lift the valve off its seat. I forgot whether its intake or exhaust that is timed by the opening. The other ones are set at a certain piston distance (different distance) but just as you can feel the drag of the valve on its seat. It's done without the springs installed, obviously.
Somebody will have the exact dimensions and photos or diagrams. I did this only once to an engine and the result was very smooth, but it was by no means silent in the valve chamber. I drove it about ten years and it always ran perfectly.

I have seen many lifters worn exactly like these. I would sure like to see evidence they were made with the recess and explain the reason they might be made this way.

No lifers were made with the cupped top. That is wear. There were cups made (aftermarket) to cover that. I have found them on engines although not lately. The valve timing is the way Ford recommended for used valve train. Both valves are made to open at a certain time of piston travel. This from the top of block to piston bottom dead center or bdc. This works good if you know block has not been decked. His block looks to not been because of the letter mark is still there.
KRW made a tool to measure this, which is still being reproduced. I use the method for the top dead center or tdc.
Ford method is in the Service Manual. TDC is in Tinkering Tips.
You may want to consider valve seats to raise the valve heads back up.
If you want more info PM me Dan

Another head scratcher!
What is the O.D. on those lifters? Stock is .437"
I have personally recut 292 lifters to convert an overhead block back to flat head. They were .500" diameter.
Cant imagine why that raised edge was left.
I agree the FORD piston timing method is a good option here, if you are not going to pull those lifters.
Personally, I would change the cam & lifters.(assuming a stock worn cam) Stipe 280 is a good cam.

You have already removed most of the parts necessary to remove the engine! You might as well take out the bolts in the crankshaft ears, and the 4 bolts around the universal joint and the two holding on the front of the engine and pull. All you need is a chain hoist or a lift which can be rented from an equipment yard. Then inspect all the parts and re-grind and pour bearings if they are worn also check out the transmission and magneto.
This should make your engine and transmission last much longer before another need to work on the car.
Norm

I gotta agree. Now is the time to pull & do a complete. You might consider checking the tripple gears for bushing wear & look @ drums for a reason to
get that power plant back to 100%

Thanks for all the suggestions. Somebody did a partial rebuild on this before. The pistons, rings and bearings are all like new. The lifters are standard bore. I've decided to install a new set of adjustable lifters.

I'm at a stopping point on this. If, after a few years, it needs more work, I will do a full rebuild.

If you look closely at the third photo, you will see a distinct, sharp transition between the flat on the lifter and the upward chamfer on the side. That chamfer has a clean, straight face. These lifters were made that way. That is not the rounded pattern created by worn valves stems/lifters. I have no idea why they were made like that, other than to maintain an oil reservoir in which the valves operate. Another poster queried the diameter of these lifters. It would be interesting to know just how big they are.
The cup in the lifter looks to be deeper than any valve lash setting needs to be. Perhaps that cup is designed to accept a range of different thickness shims to adjust valve lash.

Allan from down under.

Allan wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:12 pm

If you look closely at the third photo, you will see a distinct, sharp transition between the flat on the lifter and the upward chamfer on the side. That chamfer has a clean, straight face. These lifters were made that way. That is not the rounded pattern created by worn valves stems/lifters. I have no idea why they were made like that, other than to maintain an oil reservoir in which the valves operate. Another poster queried the diameter of these lifters. It would be interesting to know just how big they are.
The cup in the lifter looks to be deeper than any valve lash setting needs to be. Perhaps that cup is designed to accept a range of different thickness shims to adjust valve lash.

Allan from down under.

I agree. The depressions are too perfect to be worn in. I measured the diameter, and they are standard size.

I had lifters like that before and I put the feeler gauge on top of the lifter then added the depth of the depression of the lifter to set the clearance. I can’t remember how I measured the depth or if I guessed, it’s been too long but it seemed to work fine. On my 21 I pulled them out and ground them flat. I would be afraid adjustable lifters would come loose somehow.

Never had the locking nut type lifters come loose. I did shear a self locker bolt whall adjusting.