MTFCA Forum

This may seem like an OT thread at the beginning but it is Model T related at the end.

When I was in the Marines, in the Fleet Marine Force, we spent a lot of evening time polishing brass belt buckles for the next morning’s inspection. In 1974, I was selected for Embassy duty, AKA MSG Duty (Marine Security Guard). Basically, we were on loan to the State Department to provide security for the hundreds of American Embassies, Consulates and Diplomatic Missions around the world. We were also the first Americans that many visitors to the American missions came into contact with so they needed for us to look impressive and we were required to wear our Dress Blues uniform, which had ALOT of brass on it that had to be polished. Brass buttons, brass belt buckles, brass EGA emblems on hat and collar, etc., so, this is was the one downside to the otherwise, fantastic duty that was eliminated when those of us that graduated and became Embassy Duty Guards, were issued non-tarnishing bright brass dress blues uniform brass that did not need to be polished. Praise be! This saved us an incredible amount of time for other things.

The non-tarnishing permanently polished brass was referred to as “anodized brass” and I was thinking that it might be a good business to invest in the equipment necessary to anodize brass radiator shells, lamp lights, etc., for owners of brass era Model T’s and other brass cars of that era, so that they would never have to polish their brass again. Imagine that!

I looked up anodized brass and it said that brass cannot be anodized. What??? What, process then, was used to make our brass permanently bright and shiny. Obviously anodized was the wrong word to use. Does anyone know what process was used and would it be feasible to invest in the equipment by which to do it, or would it be too expensive an undertaking? Is anyone familiar with this? If so, can you educate me on what it would take? Jim Patrick

Jim

Am unaware of a typical brass alloy that is non-tarnishing.

Most cases of offerings NTB or non-tarnishing brass, such as door knobs, etc have a coating over the brass.

Suspect those uniform buttons were gold plate over brass, that will give a bright sheen that will last for several decades, as gold won't tarnish.

As for brass lamps and rims, on the Ford, gold plate will inhibit tarnish, but gold on the Ford is quite a contrary

I remember upgrading to anodized brass. There are just too many buttons on a dress blues blouse. I served in the the same era as you (75-82) so I’m sure they were the same. I suspect they were coated with the stuff used on musical instruments. While not having to polish was great, they didn’t quite have the shine of freshly polished brass.

Brass worked way better in the 70’s

Andy

Don't use clear spray its too thick and spoils the shine. Antique brass on old devices was polished and protected by warming slightly and dipping in a very very dilute solution of shellac and alcohol and shaking off any excess.
This also produces a more golden hue.

Jim, I've always wondered what do to the high end mfg'rs use on the door hardware like the Baldwin that has been on my front door for many years in this salt fog beach weather and is still sparkling bright and never been polished?

Yes, something like that would have a great appeal to us brass guys. I know some have the brass lacquered but I don't believe it has the same durability.

I looked for a brass T for years and found one that was an original 1912 T depot hack. Ir has a lot of brass, radiator, lights, horn, windshield,rear light, hub caps, and on and on. It wasn't a chore the first couple of years to polish two to three times a year depending on our use for the T. I would guess that I spent 5 to 6 hours each time. I tired of this habit soon and looked for a way out. A friend suggested I go to a man he had gone to that was a "professional" brass polisher. I went to his shop and was amazed at the items he polished and looked great. In net, I took everything to him except the radiator and let him polish and coat the brass. He uses "band instrument" lacquer that is very clear and durable. He said that the way we care for the cars, I should expect the finish to last 25 of more years. That was over ten years ago and the brass still looks great. A little golden maybe but not to the point that one would have a fit over. Actually, how many of us continue to "show" our cars after several years? Most of us want to drive them but have them look good. That is what I have and continue to recommend it. Dick C.

The brass coating used to protect household brass products use a polyurethane clear. This is a two part coating which dries quickly and sets into a hard clear covering for the brass. The good coatings used on floor boards are usually this material but it is designed for interior use only
Once covered the brass is protected from the air and any other contaminates the brass may be subject to.
In most cases the brass does not get affected by sunlight or heat which brass parts on a car are exposed to.

In the case of a brass radiator and gas light this shortens the life of any clear so the brass radiator or head light etc quickly goes from bright and shiny to a deteriorated state. Other brass parts fair better such as windscreen frames, door handles, hub caps, and will keep their shine for years.
My 1911 Town Car has as much or more brass than any other T and coating the brass not only saves a lot or elbow grease but other problems with brass polishing such as residue collecting on or around the brass parts. The Town Car has brass locking catches to fasten the rear roof section when it is in the closed position, the headlining is a cloth so I removed the latches and cleared them before replacing them back into the car.

After 55 plus years I have stopped doing any serious polishing as it is obvious that the brass is wearing away, the labels on the headlights which are stamped raised letter and numbers have deteriorated so from now on brass polishing on the parts such as the radiator and headlights will get no more than a clean with "Bright Boy" a metal cleaner others have vouched for here for brass cleaning.

As for a suitable clear coating, a good automotive two part clear which is usually an Acrylic Urethane coating is one to use if you want to clear over the brass. It not only is water clear (no yellow tone) but is designed to take any exposure to weather it might encounter.
Shellac by the way is the poorest coating to use, it takes little or no sunlight before it fails as when it is on a piece of furniture you will have a hot cup leave a mark when you place a hot drink on it.

Thank you everyone for your answers. It sounds as if “anodized” brass and the process I was inquiring about does not appear to exist. Whatever was used to preserve my uniform brass in 1974 is still as bright and shiny as it was 47 years ago, even after 2 years of active daily use on Embassy Duty.

Kable, can you provide me with the brand name of the clear 2 part automotive Acrylic Urethane coating you referred to in your posting that is available here in the States? I restore a lot of antiques, such as Ornate GWTW banquet oil lamps, many with bright brass parts and steel parts buffed to a mirror shine that need to be preserved. The coating you recommended seems to be the next best thing to the non-existent “anodizing” process. Thanks again. Jim Patrick.

Jim,

I’d venture a guess that what was issued as embassy brass was either gold plated (which is not all that expensive) or an early form of vapor deposit coating still secret in the Department of the Navy at the time.

Most are unaware that the Department of the Navy had their own technical incubation development centers. They would develop materials, finishes, processes, etc to do things the Navy wanted. Navy keep them secret for a while and then make them public domain technology since taxpayers funded the research centers. That went out of vogue, the research centers disposed of and the likes of Raytheon, Boing, Martin Marietta and the like became prime contractors for technology, the company’s owned the intellectual property as patents, and if the government wanted to increase a quantity or timeframe the government pays through the nose for the order revision. (Sorry I roamed)

I can see the Navy sending button sets for embassy duty to one of the development centers to either be plated (the research facility did gold plating as they subcontracted nothing) or were done in an Electronic Deposit Chamber. Might be nothing but I can see Anodized Brass being the jargon for EDC work. What is that today? You see it on high end faucet and fitting products. You can put that stuff on your dock on salt water and years later is still good as new!

Cant be home done tho’. You might want to look into something methyl/butyl/acetate tho. Goes on by hand after everything polished to 110% level, then polished again with denatured alcohol, then with this stuff (one such commercial product is called Everbrite-I think). It self levels and supposedly is impervious to just about anything, including UV

How do I know of the work done in research centers? My Dad spent a career in one from the 30’s onward and we had things around our house that were always conversation pieces of not yet fully understood technology

Patrick !!!
Any clear which is used to paint a car today would be suitable for your oil lamps

George. The thought did cross my mind that it was a secret process and the anodized label was given to it to throw everyone off. It may still be classified. Jim Patrick

As George says above, you may be referring to a process called PVD, physical vapor deposition. It is the process that is used for lifetime brass finishes on faucets, door handles, etc. I see no reason it might not be used for car parts. No idea what the cost for one off parts may be. Maybe you want to check it out and let us know? Here is one company that may do it- I know nothing about them.

https://www.bendplating.com/pvd-coating/

Tom

Interesting info.. There's a couple of those pretty close to me. I'll give them a call to check it out.

All I know is that the Balwin door handles and hardware that I have on my front door still look amazing after many years and not one polishing job required!!
That'd be worth quite a bit for a brass Model T!

I wonder why these don't tarnish. They don't have a brilliant reflective shine, but they retain their color.

Baldwin uses PVD for their lifetime finish.