MTFCA Forum

In the case of 26-27 T’s with natural wood wheels to be an authentic restoration it would depend if the paticular car you have actually came from the factory that way. Folks have used the natural color wood wheels because they know it was an option those years. Would those cars be authentic just because you could make it look that way? Depends who you talk to is what it boils down to in my mind.
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Trust me - I will not lose one minute's worth of sleep over whether your T's wheels are black, some other color, or natural wood. My '27 T came with black wheels and some previous owner did a half-a--ed job of sanding and varnishing them. I have (so far) redone two of them and at some point in the future will redo the other two. I like the look and don't care whether it's 100% authentic or not.

John Codman wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:12 pm

. . . I . . . don't care whether it's 100% authentic or not.

Steve, there's your answer.

I believe this is the "philosophy" most owners abide by. Personal gratification, followed by convenience / utility, followed by the difficulty of adhering to contradictory and elusive details will inevitably trump "authenticity" even among owners who might be (derisively) called "purists".

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There are as many definitions of beauty as there are people. Model T’s are like women. What one would consider beautiful, another might not, but it shouldn’t bother someone that one’s definition of beauty does not agree with yours.

While I would be disappointed to have this house next door to me, I’m sure the owner could not care less to hear what I thought of it, which is as it should be. Jim Patrick

To Steve's point- the problem is with the term "restored". People are easily fooled and swayed when they read something. Myths and nonfactual data are condoned when not confronted. So when the uneducated see a "restored" 1924 Model T with natural wheels the assume that this is correct...

When I was about 16 years old I found this old wooden truck cab and all of the body parts in the loft of a barn. I sanded off the original factory paint and found almost perfect white oak under the finish and thought it would look good like that and decided to paint the rest of the truck red with black fenders. After high school I came to my senses and decided that as rare as this truck is it should be "restored" and not made into a street rod but thought the factory paint was an ugly color and was still thinking of at least a color change but keep the rest original other than the natural wood look.
As time went by I decided to at least try and live with the factory colors on all the parts that were painted and see just how this truck looked from the factory so I painted every part the color that it had on it when I found it right down to the awesome oak cab and black doors and hood. I thought since paint is temporary and would need replaced in time it could always be painted again if it looked bad but as hard as it was to do it, I went with it to be correct because I wanted it to be right and I am so glad I did. I think it turned out good and because the wood was painted to protect it when new, this was the right thing to do.
Most Model T's are not rare and most are not 100% as they left the factory and if someone wants one that is I feel the wood should be painted but they do look good either way to me. The ones with the fiberglass body and 350 Chevy that try to pass it off as a real T are the ones I cringe over.

I am currently trying to decide on black or natural for the steering wheel on my 1911. Correct is black, but the wood looks so good! Until I saw the 1910 on the Ford fix site that has a black wheel, which is perfect. So here is where I am: finish the wheel natural and put mucho varnish on it, then paint gloss black over that. I can go back to wood easily that way. Hedging my bets. Love correct restorations, but for my driver, I am making some sensible concessions.

Anyone else notice how Mr. Jelf can stir a pot? Cheers, Bill

Anyone else notice how Mr. Jelf can stir a pot?

One man's pot is another man's philosophical discussion, and vice versa.

Jim in Bartow

Your photo made me laugh out loud! My neighborhood in Florida was pretty ok with exterior color pallet. Nice neighborhood harmony. Then someone figured with lot prices doubling or even tripling in the last two years....maybe it was worth subdividing and putting up a fence. New house was painted pretty much like your example and the whole hood went uggggh, Other neighbor had the same idea, subdivide! That new house got painted this week, some kind of gloss blue that belongs on an Easter decoration. Funny thing, nobody even notices the first purple house any more!

As to T? The first 25 (an April of 25) came with paint as thick as eggshells. Took them natural with 100’s of hours in them. Made myself proud. When the hack came along, it sat on 27 running gear and had factory natural wheels. I bought a complete set of decent black wheels and old tires on decent rims at Hershey only to find that I apparently had a Johnny Cash set, one from each wheel maker.

I took the naturals and painted them black with rims painted in a color called Smoke. Made myself proud once again!

They’re my cars and if a challenger wants to take me on at an outing or show is....can I show you a picture of my 15Roadster? The splash apron has this crease in it and I want to dolly it out, like an opinion. When they remark that the crease is a shame for such an otherwise fine car...I offer to show a picture of the other side of the car! (Sorry, is inside joke for folks with 15s)

I've marched to the beat of a different drummer when I painted my first restoration/build white rather than black 40 years ago. Enjoy

Fiberglass T buckets have probably saved a lot of original tin.

I’m also one who couldn’t care less if someone varnishes the wheels on their Model T - regardless of the year Model - as long as the wheel size is correct for the year model of their T. But I do cringe at the otherwise beautiful 1913 touring in my neck of the woods with Ford 21” wire wheels.

It is not of us to judge what another does with their cars or other items. Then we need to look with purity at ourselves first. Some may not have the funds or resources to enjoy what they have as others may see as incorrect. So as a club of good standing people, we need to embrace all attempts in their pleasure and foster with respect.

Humbled Hank

When any part of a Model T is painted it is no longer original.

Mine is rust like it or not. With all new restored running gear!

Model T Philosophy: What is a restoration? Well, for my two cents, a restoration is anytime a vehicle is "kept as close to original state". I think the question needs to be "qualified" somewhat, because a restoration can vary. There are 100% authentic restorations, professional restorations, amateur restorations, mechanical restorations, and cosmetic restorations. Each of these is a restoration, at least to a degree. Prior to 2013, I was a service writer at a Walmart Auto Center. A customer, who I didn't write the ticket for, bought his Subaru WRX in for new tires. He must have brought in different wheels that he wanted the new tires mounted on, because when he came to pick up his car, there were two sets of tires and wheels. Now, anyone who knows what a Subsru WRX is, knows that even their stock tires are not the size of "doughnut spares", so when the work was done, all the extra tires and wheels wouldn't fit in the car's trunk. The tire installer put what he could in the trunk and put the rest of them in the back seat. When the customer saw this, he was livid with profanity. He was a bigger, younger man and I literally was scared by his anger and called the store manager to intervene. I only relate this story because the owner said to me, "I can't believe ya'll put these tires inside my RESTORED car. If he hadn't have been so much bigger than me, I felt like saying to him, "RESTORED"? Hell, man, you restore an antique or classic car, not a foreign piece of S#!T"! So, What's restored to one person, can vary quite a bit from another.

Steve asked "What is a restoration?" Terry Woods added there are several types of restorations, professional restorations, mechanical restorations, amateur restorations, etc.

An old curmudgeon type Model T friend who is now long gone said when asked "What is a restoration? He replied, It's what you do in the parking lot before the tour starts!"

Your opinion may vary.....

Keith

Restore to WHAT ? Factory spec original ? Is that the only option ? My
attraction to these things is as used, "Grapes of Wrath", sort of worn out
beaters of the Great Depression. Well used and patinaed, and perhaps
kept together with baling wire and Farmer Brown ingenuity. My idea of
a restoration is to restore it not to factory, but to the "barn fresh", as used
state of a still running car or truck in 1939, .... worse for wear, but still on
the job, doing what Henry had intended.

One thing I dislike about old cars is owners who ignore history and make
them "cutesy". The impracticality of bare wood wheels just flies in the face
of pre-war mentality to put paint on any wood surface to protect it, that in
the main, was how 99% of people viewed something like this. Paint it and
get back to work !

That said, opinions are like posterior vent orofices, and everyone has one.
And if others wish to run bare wood wheels, by golly, they should get right to
it. I can only speak for my own viewpoint and why I have it. I expect no one
to hear it as criticism or pressure to change, any more than I would hear others'
opinions as such.

Per Hemming's
In simple terms, a restored car is an automobile that has been rebuilt exactly the way its manufacturer first assembled it at the factory.
For a car to be considered having had a concours-quality, factory-correct restoration, the process by which the car was restored will have had to incorporate several important steps. Let's start with the car as a whole: The entire vehicle must be stripped down to the last nut and bolt and the entire body completely removed from the chassis, unless, of course, you are restoring an MGB or Porsche, in which case its unitized body is stripped down to a bare shell.
The Body: All the windows and every single piece of exterior trim are to be removed, the previous paint finish must be stripped off and the entire body rendered bare. All the rusted-out metal must be repaired with metal patches welded in, not bondo or Gorilla hair. Body filler is only to be used minimally, usually to fill in hard-to-see lows in the sheetmetal.
The Paint: The exterior color should be the exact same shade that the car was first painted or be a color that its manufacturer offered that year for similar models. A change of color or even lightening or darkening its shade renders a restoration an inaccurate restoration, regardless of the quality of the paint finish.
The Interior: More than just slipping on an upholstery kit and new door panels, a properly restored interior includes a dashboard that has been disassembled so all the instruments can be cleaned and rebuilt if necessary. Same with the chrome trim and chrome knobs and handles; they must be replated if needed. All new weatherstripping must be installed as well. CD stereo? Forgetaboutit.
The Mechanicals: Every suspension, brake and steering component that wears must be replaced with new OE-correct parts. Those that don't have to be replaced, such as the steering box, need to be rebuilt back to factory tolerances; this includes the steering box's proper exterior finish.
The Engine: Original specifications are the key here. Internal upgrades, such as lightweight pistons, higher-lift camshafts, forged connecting rods or a three-angle valve cut, are acceptable only because these modifications cannot be seen once the engine is assembled. However, aftermarket intake manifolds, exhaust headers, carburetors, chrome alternators and open-element chrome air cleaners are not acceptable for a factory-correct restoration.
The Electrics: No retaping of the existing wiring harness or ribbed plastic coverings. Whether it's braided fabric or vinyl covering, the wiring must have the correct exterior material as originally equipped, and all electrical components and connections must be OE-correct. And no alternator conversions are permissible if the car was originally equipped with a generator.
Replacement Parts: Wherever possible, original equipment, new-old-stock or just good quality second-hand parts should be used. The difference in value between a car restored with N.O. S. parts and a reproduction parts car can sometimes be two, or even three times higher when N.O.S. parts are used.

Here is what works for me; I enjoy the research and history of our old Fords almost as much as the cars themselves. As such I am "restoring" a non-starter 1925 Touring that spent its life on a local North Dakota farm. I am doing my best to bring that car back to what it looked like when it was new using the correct parts and finishes. I also have some later model Fords that I have "refurbished". For example a 65 Mustang that I put a petronix ignition in, some non-correct engine dress up stuff and an upgraded interior. Still a great old Ford, not restored, but I enjoy it.

At club meetings and car shows I usually get together with other Ford owners. I both enjoy and respect the restored and refurbished cars there. I hope the other car owners feel the same way, its whats good for our hobby.

Henry didnt clear varnish the spokes, and he didnt spray them with Rustolium rattle can black either.

As far as the spokes are concerned, at least to me, the factory offered it. When doesn’t make any difference. It OK’s any retrofit. Didn’t dealers offer this too. Even earlier? Color on the other hand, again this is me, affects how I look at a T. Needs to be right. For resale too.

Fixing a flat is an act of restoration. The word "restoration" is much-abused when applied to old cars. A strictly accurate, 100-point restoration is one (rare) thing. A good repaint and comprehensive mechanical overhaul is another. Then we have the resto-mods, rolling, T-era parts collections, replicars, and Asian golf carts.... and assorted doodlebug/hoopie/tractor machines, many of which are very artful.

Big difference between fixing it up and restoration that depends on the expectation you have for the end result. Judging or just driving around? Appropriateness of wood finish vs painted wheels probably already has a zillion posts on the forum and I'm sure the discussion will never end. It usually amounts to personal choice. Around here, we can't even get everyone to agree what goes on their pizza!
Terry

Very very few Model Ts are rare historic artefacts, and owners can do what they wish -
- but no more hot rods
- no metallic paint
- and no chrome

PLEASE!

Just a thought.....
Car terms - Replica, Refurbished, Restored
Part terms -Refurbished, Rebuilt, Re-manufactured, Reproduction, Refinished

Restored - Made to original factory specifications with original parts also meeting factory specifications.
Refurbished - Made serviceable with worn parts replaced
Re-manufactured - An original item made to original factory specifications with new parts where required
Rebuilt - Made serviceable again with worn parts replaced
Refinished - Made to look new again
Replica - A representation of the original
Reproduction - Made to look like the original item

The factory's method to produce the item to specification is not mentioned. For example: Is it not practical to use the same method/tooling to paint a Model T as it was originally done - nor is paint available to meet the original factory specification. In this case undocumented alternative methods are acceptable to still use the term "restored".

Are these cars all wrong?

Interesting question. What guidelines or standards does one follow to restore a vehicle? By definition for the National Register of Historic Places, an automobile is a moving structure. Therefore, one could apply the Standards of the National Register to the restoration of a particular Model T,

"The Standards are a series of concepts about maintaining, repairing, and replacing historic materials, as well as designing new additions or making alterations. The Guidelines offer general design and technical recommendations to assist in applying the Standards to a specific property. Together, they provide a framework and guidance for decision-making about work or changes to a historic property.

The Standards and Guidelines can be applied to historic properties of all types, materials, construction, sizes, and use. They include both the exterior and the interior and extend to a property’s landscape features, site, environment, as well as related new construction.

Federal agencies use the Standards and Guidelines in carrying out their historic preservation responsibilities. State and local officials use them in reviewing both Federal and non-federal rehabilitation proposals. Historic district and planning commissions across the country use the Standards and Guidelines to guide their design review processes."

https://www.wbdg.org/ffc/nps/criteria/s ... properties

My '17 originally had non-demountable wheels and a black painted steering wheel. When it came to me after 103 years in the wild (the last 30+ sitting in a garage), it had 30 x 3.5 demountable wheels with varnished spokes and a varnished wood wheel, both with a wonderful patina. When these modifications were made I have no idea, but I have no intention of changing them.

Let us not forget that the Model T was one of the most customized cars of it's time.... often beginning soon after it rolled out of the factory. I consider my car's equipment to be part of it's history and have no desire to change it. In particular, the demountable wheels are lot more convenient if you get a flat tire while on tour. I get enjoyment from driving my car, not looking at it in a museum or car show. I don't try to pass it off as 100% correct and tell those who are interested what has been done to it. In this hobby I say, "To each his own, all are welcome."

My personal philosophy is to avoid permanently altering old vehicles and parts, so far as is possible. I think "natural wood" wheels look great on many Model Ts, but if I had a well-preserved original build with painted wood spokes, I'd be inclined to leave it as-is.

Are these cars all wrong?

Depends on what you want. They're only wrong if you want to stay "original" or put them in a show for points judging. My T's have too many "wrong" things for that, and it bothers me not one whit. Just driving them around is show enough for me. That's probably true for most T owners. I appreciate and admire the folks who put great effort into making everything "correct", but I'm not one of them.

Thanks a lot Mr. Jelf ! ... What are you going to bring up next ... Water pumps or oil?

No pump.
Auntie Chatter.

I'm glad Steve brought this up and that some people are looking at definitions for "restoration" versus "renovation" or what have you.

It's funny, in historic preservation restoration is discouraged because they prefer to conserve original material instead of trying to turn back the clock and make a building look like a best guess at what it looked like when it was brand new. Some preservationists think that restoration turns into more about what the restorer thinks the building "should be" versus what it really was when it was new. (For what it's worth, they don't think about the functionality of antique technology, so it's hard to apply these standards to antique cars, radios, steam engines, or other fun things.)

Ideally, a Model T restoration would go back to perfectly "as it came off the assembly line" condition. I don't think anyone, even Larry Smith, goes quite that far. For a pre-1914, you'd be painting with ground coats and carriage varnish, for 1914-1925 you'd be flowing on the asphaltum-based paint, or nitrocellulose lacquer for 1926-1927. You'd probably have to get custom tired molded because the tread pattern is a little different. And the upholstery and top material were a little different in the 1920s. (I read somewhere that the modern stuff is the same grain pattern, but the vinyl takes a deeper impression. Original artificial leather was like an oilcloth. I think one English company makes it for restoring Bentleys.) This wouldn't be insurmountable, but it would be a tall order--especially now when we're having to search for a good nickel plater or Babbitter.

Now, my 1923 roadster came to me with a 1950s Brewster green lacquer paint job and varnished wood wheels. It's staying green, but I'm slapping a set of discs on, and possibly a pickup bed when I take it camping.

I have been involved in restoration and preservation of vehicles as a hobby for many years. I like to think preservation is the main concern. These old vehicles, steam, petrol and diesel have survived , like us, through luck and circumstance.
Should a vehicle have had a long hard life then it will have had parts replaced and repaired. This to me is an important part of its history and should be preserved to show future generations how " we got by"! Drive trains should be mechanically sound and maintained.
Restoration is a rich man's hobby, and often for self satisfaction. This should be carried out on " basket cases" or museum exhibits. Preservation is key with these old and historic vehicles.

While I didn’t restore an actual car, I started with a chassis I bought for $75. It’s probably around a 1925 frame but the first motor I found was an early 1914 so I had to go with that. I started out driving with the later springs, axles and wheels but changed those for the correct ones. I got real 1914 sheet metal, some useable runabout quarter panels and some touring sides, bought a wood kit and made the body. I’ve got probably 95% original 1914 parts. One day I’ll replace those later fender irons and reproduction headlight forks with originals. I’ve got an original muffler for it I need to install and I need an interior and top sockets but other than the frame and a few reproduction parts (seat back, firewall, 2 hubcaps) it’s about like it would’ve came from the factory. I just found some original windshield clamps and replaced the reproductions the other day. I will keep the reproduction radiator and gas tank but I got a round tube core because I always think that if it worked back then, why wouldn’t it still work today? Maybe I’m a bitsa-purist.

Do ya' suppose it ever happened in the factory that something went wrong and the assembly line had to make some sort of "substitution" because of running out of a supply of a certain part, and a hundred years later, some "purist" criticized a restoration because the car had a "wrong" style part that was actually installed by the factory? I'll bet that's been the case more than once, huh?

Further to something Chris Rini said about paint methods and types, the colored lacquer on the Improved Fords was satin finish. And so were the Ford TT cabs. I've never seen anyone cleave to originality to that degree.

And Corey Walker, your car is fantastic. I love that.

For Harold,

You commented:

"Do ya' suppose it ever happened in the factory that something went wrong and the assembly line had to make some sort of "substitution" because of running out of a supply of a certain part, and a hundred years later, some "purist" criticized a restoration because the car had a "wrong" style part that was actually installed by the factory? I'll bet that's been the case more than once, huh?"

Ref Page 497 of Bruce McCalley's "Model T Ford" where he has a listing of about every 100th car's shipping invoice summary. For serial number 59,400 and 59,500 manufactured on Jun 17, 1911 and Jun 19, 1911 both had a comment on the original shipping document "1910 running boards." Bruce added a comment between those to listing that says, "1910 running boards" used on a number of cars."

And yes, Ford authorized doing just that. Ref the online Encyclopedia at: https://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/doc19.htm

APR 14, 1919 Acc. 235, Box 39, #385, Ford Archives
"From this date two distinct designs of front radius rods, together with front spring perches, right and left, one on the Model T and the other on Model TT.
"The Model TT design will be assembled beneath the axle, instead of above the axle through the spring perch as heretofore.
"Although it would be possible to use the Model T design on the Model TT, we request this be resorted to only in case of a shortage serious enough to threaten loss of production."

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

The Touring body of my '15 Model T Ford, with its large, flat expanse of blackness is... well, nothing special to look at. That's the reason I decided to go heretical and finish my wheels in clear varnish over stained wood-grain; the car just needed some detail when viewed from the side. The color of varnished (as opposed to plain black) wheels really adds some pleasing texture to the vast, black area of a slab-sided touring body. It may not be factory-authentic, but as I'm told that wood-spoke wheels for Fords were made available by a number of dealers in bare wood, one could make a case for their being period-correct. Or not.


For what it's worth, going with stain and varnish wasn't an easy decision. When Noah Stutzman's rebuilt wheels arrived, the bare wood was so lovely, it really made me feel that covering them in plain (but correct) black paint just wouldn't do. Hey, I traffic-jam on Jericho Turnpike with dump trucks, tractor-trailers, buses and high-performance pony-cars piloted by suicidal, hat-backwards drivers who change lanes like pinballs. That means I need non-authentic, period-incorrect, just-plain-wrong equipment on my Flivver to make it reasonably safe. I have an egregious non-Ford Klaxon horn, disgraceful brake-lights, abhorrent turn-signals all around and opprobrious 4-way flashers, too. And that great, big Day-Glo sign on the back that says, "Slow Moving Vehicle"—that's not original Ford equipment, either. There are plenty of other such flagitious compromises which increase the car's safety and utility—enough to give a purist apoplexy. So putting stained and varnished wheels on the car didn't seem to make all that much more difference, anyway.

And if you glare at me with flaming, self-righteous eyes, and with arm fully extended, point in my direction, and proclaim in stentorian tones vibrant with authority that my car is in no way original, I'll shrug and reply. "You're right. Sue me."
[/size]

Hey guys, I'm loving the constructive and even-toned comments from most of us on the thread, and I'm replying since I don't want to work on grad school stuff tonight.

@Dan: I've heard that too. One friend found some 1920s Duco (Dupont pyroxylin lacquer) ads that said, "And your finish will get better the more you polish it" which he interpreted as meaning the painters didn't rub out the lacquer, so the final rubbing happened when the owners polished their cars. IIRC, Model A Fords weren't polished on the assembly line until 1930 or 1931. Allegedly Henry didn't want to lay off a bunch of employees, so they were given power buffers and set to polishing bodies.

@Hap and Harold: Oh absolutely. Ford used all the obsolete parts until they were used up, and there were definitely cars that were "restored" and made less original because they were found with the "wrong" parts. I know of a 1925 Fordor that was found with 1926-1927 style wood wheels and tires (available in 1925 but only on enclosed cars) and the restorer put 30x3.5s on instead. There was also a 1915 center door that was found with Firestone five-lug demountable wheels and (I think) a Gray & Davis starter generator. The restorer removed both as they were not "correct" despite probably being on the car since 1915.

@Bob: It's all relative. Your car is clean and photographs nicely, and often additional lights can be removed if one wants, and it's not a big deal. At the other end... there's an early 1920s Studebaker sedan for sale. The owner painted it light grey and bubblegum pink. Its... attention getting.

Restoration: I'm not concerned about natural wood spokes. I would be concerned about natural steel spokes, however.

When someone asks me about a car I'm driving, if it's all original. I tell them "it is number matching"...after an uncomfortable pause that is, because I cannot immediately tell if they are sitting on a tack when asking that question. Sometimes I will answer "authentic". Other times I will say "Everything is perfectly original, just the way it came." Then I will chirp the alarm system and say "I lied."

Jugster wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:59 am

For what it's worth, going with stain and varnish wasn't an easy decision. When Noah Stutzman's rebuilt wheels arrived, the bare wood was so lovely, it really made me feel that covering them in plain (but correct) black paint just wouldn't do.

Amen to that. When I did the frame up restoration on our 15 runabout, I decided to varnish the newly built Stutzman wheels because they were too beautiful to paint. Part of my reasoning was that I could always paint them black later if I changed my mind. It is much harder to go the other way. I also kept the steering wheel unpainted to go along with the wheels. I also think that the natural wood color goes well with the brass on the car. I have probably gotten more favorable comments about the wood wheels than any other feature on the car. I think part of the reason is that the average person doesn't realize that wheels used to be wood on early cars.

I is difficult to put paint on that beautiful wood. I too have thought how beautiful natural wheels would look. Someone mentioned the wonderful flash of each painted spoke reflecting the sun as the wheel turns. The satisfaction of doing what was done originally has kept me painting my wheels.
I have the same feeling about covering up the wood body frame with sheet metal but the option isn't there for that.

There are plenty of other such flagitious compromises...

I think I have a pretty good vocabulary, but that one sent me to the dictionary. I can't wait to use it somewhere.

This is the most entertaining post I've seen in quite a while. And, I'm learning new words!
Thank you Steve.

2nighthawks wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:07 pm

Do ya' suppose it ever happened in the factory that something went wrong and the assembly line had to make some sort of "substitution" because of running out of a supply of a certain part, and a hundred years later, some "purist" criticized a restoration because the car had a "wrong" style part that was actually installed by the factory? I'll bet that's been the case more than once, huh?

You are so right. There is no doubt that when there was a part change, for whatever reason, factories were required to deplete the inventory on hand before switching to the new part. As a result, its more than likely (documented for some parts) that cars produced at the end of a model year may have the new designed part or the next model year may have some of the previous year's parts. Not like Henry to throw anything away!

...factories were required to deplete the inventory on hand before switching to the new part.

In The Reckoning David Halberstam describes the attitude at the New Jersey assembly plant as "Screw Detroit", and says you could practically walk across the river on discarded Ford parts. Great book.

"When stock on hand is exhausted....."

So did Ford manufacture all their components in house or did the Company depend on suppliers? From 1908 to 1927, the impression at times is the company was self sufficient, yet reviewing automobile publications during the life of the "T" there were numerous parts that were manufactured by out side sources. A Briggs body on a Ford chassis..is it a Ford or a Briggs?

Most likely any Ford of the period to survive had aftermarket parts to keep it on the road. And if the part was not available it was manufactured locally.

Example of out sourced parts include... electrical, body, and mechanical parts. Yes, Ford warned about only buying Ford parts, yet on surviving cars there were parts by others than the FMC.

As for whether wood spokes should be painted or not, consider that the original car was used in all sorts of weather and road conditions...the paint on the wood was to protect and seal the fibers. Without a protection such as paint, or linseed oil, the spokes would last only a few years...and the beauty would be gone...as well as the spokes purpose.

If interested suggest a review of carriage building literature and the protection of wooden spoke carriage wheels.

As with Historic Preservation of a building, 18th century log houses were built with with out electricity and indoor plumbing, yet surviving examples now have both. And that make then a survivor?

If you are striving for the first prize in a contest for the most authentically restored car, then by all means, follow the instructions posted above.
The first time I went to an event where cars were judged, was about 1962 when I drive a 1931 Model A Phaeton from San Diego to San Francisco. There were cars driven from all over the United States and Canada. A tour started at New York and as the cars drove across the country to San Francisco, other Model A's joined them. We had probably around 300 Model A's at Golden Gate Park. Right next to me was another 31 Phaeton, a local car. It had the sand pits ground off the block and head and the engine was polished up like a mirror. Every stitch on the top was perfect. No oil drip from under the car. The bead left by the mold was still on the tires. That car was definately over restored. As people walked by, they passed by my car and Ooh'd and Aw'd over that one next to me. Anyway in the end, the only cars which won prizes were ones trailered to the the site, without even oil in the crankcase, they were pushed into place. The only other prize was for the car driven the farthest to the tour. That car came from Florida.
From that time on, the only shows I enter are those without a fee to enter and don't give prizes.
I, myself enjoy working on the cars, and driving them. When I get a dent I fix it, and when it breaks I fix it. I have been on many tours where we drive the cars.
I think a Model T should be period correct. It can have paint any color the owner wants. The original paint did not last very long anyway, and most cars were re-painted many times over the years. Many times the paint was applied with a brush. I think accessories available during the Model T period, which lasted at least to the end of World War II, because new cars were expensive during the depression and not available during the war. Other parts such as disk brakes, help make the car safe, but don't look period correct.
Anyway, I don't like the "hot rod" where the body is used with a different chassis and drive train. A Model T is a Model T. Speedsters, although not factory correct, were period correct. So if they have Model T drive train, I have now problem accepting them.
Anyway, that is my opinion.
Norm

One of the hottest topics among antique car enthusiasts, one that never seems to cool, is the subject of originality. It's been done to death, but it won't go away. In that realm, we use different terms of only slightly diverging connotation; words like "stock," "unmolested," "authentic," "genuine," "accurate," "correct," etc. A comprehensive, frame-off restoration may return an automobile to "stock," or even "mint" condition, but it'll never be "original" again. Whether you prefer a restored car to an original, unrestored car, the recent trend, where the oldest of collector cars is concerned, tends to eschew gross modifications. At the more prestigious auctions, unmodified cars from the Brass-Era through about the 1930's simply command the highest prices. Hot-rods, eh—not so much.

If you're an award-winning competitor of the Pebble Beach/Amelia Island variety, you enjoy your car in a way that differs from the weekly, neighborhood cruise-in crowd. Your car doesn't get driven very much, and may not even be registered or have license plates, and it lives 99.9% of its life in a surgically clean garage or an enclosed trailer. Such a priceless, restored-to-mint treasure is an authentic historical standard against which others are measured. With these automobiles, fidelity to detail is carried out to an apogean degree, a practice which may have given meaning to the term, "over-restored." So where do we draw the line on authenticity and originality? Do we fill the gas tank and engine with vintage gasoline and oil? That may sound facetious, but if, instead of black or brown, the factory used red grease, the trophy-seeking owner will also use that stuff. And if anti-freeze wasn't available back in the day, you won't see any trace of green stain under the hood. I mean, these guys are serious!

Then, on the other hand, there are factory-new parts which, right from the get-go, were intended for regular replacement. How people replaced them and the parts they used are a part of the historical record. These items include tires, brake shoes, spark plugs and so on. Most Brass-Era automobiles were designed with the intention of being, to a significant extent, owner-maintained, or owner's chauffeur-maintained—and all these cars required lots and lots of adjusting and tinkering.

In the case of Ford's humble Model T*, which was designed to be kept in running order by a farmer wielding a pocketknife (and the American farmer was Henry's favorite demographic), this is especially true. Because the car was the most-produced vehicle of its day, an aftermarket industry of non-factory, Model T parts manufacturers burst into being like dandelions on a hillside and the catalogs of these ubiquitous companies have become collector items. I think this very widespread capitalistic endeavor should be considered a significant component of the history of Ford's Flivver. The photographic record shows the car equipped with ahooga horns, fat-man steering wheels, robe-rails, crystal vases (for Heaven's sake!), rear-view mirrors, Hassler shock absorbers, accordion running-board racks and toolboxes, and yes—even clear-varnished wood-spoke wheels.

Would this kind of stuff get past the eye of an HCCA or AACA judge? Nah, but then, neither would fuzzy dice, curb-feeler springs, retractable "Necker" steering-wheel knobs, or a half-empty pack of Luckies on the dashboard of a '57 Thunderbird. But you know what? Such things belong there because they tell part of the story of the people who owned these cars and the times in which they lived. When I go to museums, I do see those accessories in abundance.

*As a related aside, the parts-network of Ford dealerships routinely replaced worn out major components (like rear axle/differential assembles) with recognizably later-model parts when owners would bring their cars in for such repairs. As these were genuine Ford parts installed by authorized Ford dealers, what then would be the status of historical legitimacy and accuracy in such cases? No good? Okay, what if the present owner could produce the original Ford receipt that documented such replacement?

I get a lot of admiring comments on my wood-spoked wheels from the public. I suspect if they were painted black like from the factory they wouldn't get near the attention. A previous owner many years ago changed the original wheels for demountables with natural spokes. They very well could date back to the 1920's or earlier and show no sign of ever being painted. I added the spare tire when I "returned the car to service" because what use are demountables without a spare?

My car was built in September of 1916 and there are a number of 1916 parts on it even though it is a 1917 model year. In no way would I consider changing those parts to make it more correct. It is kind of fun though to be aware of what parts are '16 and what ones are '17...can lead to some interesting discussions.

We have had this discussion many times in the past and will no doubt continue to in the future. I have enjoyed seeing the photos and hearing the differing opinions. People will do what they decide is attractive, most logical or precisely original. And we will look at these cars with our own prejudices and knowledge. Spirited arguments will occur and feelings will be hurt. What we do and say can often inspire some to do the same. I hope the authentic restorations will spawn others to keep that ideal alive.
I also believe spending time on a car is one of the best pastimes there is. Despite how we do it, it is worth while and better that some choices folks make.
The forum can be one of the best tools to this end. Hopefully we can survive any flagitious posts.
Rich

I'm enjoying this thread for the opportunity to take all this "philosophically"

As a self-accused "purist / brass snob" I'm amused by the fact that I'm currently restoring a restoration

Explanation- a few years back, I bought a reportedly "prize winning" restoration that had seen 20 years of extensive touring under two previous owners. It showed some normal wear, but had been very well maintained. A severe windstorm last Labor Day felled a tree branch which shredded the top and mildly mangled one bow socket and dented the off side rear fender.

Now, of needs, this eminently "authentic" restoration sported all reproduction sheet metal when it was turned out, save the body. The damaged fender is quite cancerous with rust at the running board, so I bought a new one.

As it's often stated on these boards we tend to think of our Model T journey as "preserving history" in some sense, but am I restoring a 1913 Ford, or a 1994 "Rootleib" ?!?

Rich & Rich, .... my thinking, exactly. A "restoration" is subjective to what one is
trying to "restore" an object to. The 1872 house, additions in 1890, 1912, and 1950 ....
Are we going to "restore" to the original as-built, complete with no indoor plumbing
and rather cramped small square footage ? Or shall we restore it to the 1890 remodel,
with it's Victorian stained glass, fancy ornamentation, and enlarged footprint ? Or
shall we restore it to the 1912 version, when indoor plumbing was added ? Or we
can walk it back to 1950, with the added mid-century wing, all the stained glass and
gee-gaw removed, and covered in asbestos siding ? Each one is it's own entity, yet
all are the same house.

I am about Americana. The Model T was a big part of that period, and thusly has
a solid place in the mix. But it is more about many years of service out on the farm
than it is about the momentary factory specs and original delivery to me. I am trying
to capture a more lucid "typical scene" of 1933 than I am of hard details, as laid out by
a parts book. Thusly, I would restore the 1872 house to the 1912 configuration, because
it represents what most interests me. The purist will balk, that it should be taken back
to 1872, and the "hotrodder" mentality would tear the whole thing down and build a
vinyl sided POS. I do what's right for me. It's my house. It's my Model T. It's my money
getting spent. That is how I define "restoration" .... a matter of personal choice as to
what the target is.

An entirely different perspective of individual opinions; https://www.theedadvocate.org/need-know ... hilosophy/
The word philosophy is derived from two Greek words. The first word, philo, means “love.” The second, sophy, means “wisdom.” Literally, then, philosophy means “love of wisdom”. Each individual has an attitude toward life, children, politics, learning, and previous personal experiences that informs and shapes their set of beliefs. Although you may not be conscious of it, this set of beliefs, or personal philosophy, informs how you live, work, and interact with others. What you believe is directly reflected in both your teaching and learning processes.

And when the broken hearted people living in the world agree
There will be an answer, let it be
For though they may be parted, there is still a chance that they will see
There will be an answer, let it be
....
Whisper words of wisdom, let it be

"Ignorance is bliss where it is folly (foolish) to be wise"
What you don't know won't hurt you.
Don't worry, be happy!

My grandfather had bought a brand new Model A coupe in 1929. Little did he know the "Great Depression" was just about to hit. He had a fleet of TT trucks for delivering furniture from his furniture factory, at that time the largest furniture factory west of the Mississippi. They lost the business and their home in the depression and although he was retirement age, he had to keep working. He started building Baby Furniture and built a wood pickup bed on the back of the Model A. He also had two brackets made for front fender mount spare tires to which he attached upright posts and built another truck bed on top of the cab. He used that car as the family car as well as the delivery truck for the baby cribs. That was the way I remember that car when I was a boy. Actually, in my teens, I bought that car for $15 after the engine blew a piston. I had another A so I stripped all the parts which were still good such as wheels and transmission and rear axle assembly and hauled the body to the dump.
If I could, today, I would restore it to the condition I first remembered it with the wood home made truck parts on it. To me, that would be a "restoration".
Norm

Per-zackly, Norm !

I believe all of the people on this forum embody the spirit of the Model T when it comes to their cars. They may make changes to their car but even while doing so try to maintain the essence of what is a Model T. Back when Model T's were new I doubt their owners were very concerned about maintaining them exactly as they came out of the factory. That was just a starting point... They modified them for safety, comfort, convenience, special work and sometimes just to show their individuality. The abundant availability of aftermarket parts along with individual ingenuity produced some unique vehicles. Whatever your goal; driver, show car, award winner, museum display - there is a place for you in the hobby. We should never criticize another simply because they choose to do things differently than we might.

I've enjoyed this thread and hope we have more like it.

Oldav8tor wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:06 pm

The essence of a Model T. "Back when Model T's were new I doubt their owners were very concerned about maintaining them exactly as they came out of the factory. That was just a starting point... They modified them for safety, comfort, convenience, special work and sometimes just to show their individuality. The abundant availability of aftermarket parts along with individual ingenuity produced some unique vehicles."

I agree 100% If a Model T was perfectly restored, it wouldn't be.

Any body that wish to make my car correct is welcome , just bring the paint and all your supplies . I will supply you a room,and a thankyou for fixing my car. I remember Dads story , first trip with the T to Calgary and he had a 1913 tail light on the car. He was told it was wrong , his answer was give me the right one and I'll put it on. 3 weeks later a tail light arrived in the mail it's been on the car for 60 years. Cheers Colin

Colin, a rare example of constructive criticism !!
What a great story.

This is a fun thread. My own very personal standard with all of my old cars is the "three year standard." My goal is to get my car looking period appropriate so that If I had a time machine and could take my car back to a time three or five years after it was built and park it on the streets of a typical town it would attract no attention from passers by. It should look like it belonged there. Shiny pain is OK but so are a dulled finish and a few dents. Accessories should also be few & appropriate.

I found black paint on the spokes of our '26. So, they went back to black.
Slime green paint fragments were on the engine and transmission. Done.
The only paint on the body was inside the door at the A-pillar which were several shades of dark green. We will pick one.
I still don't know whether to call it a "restoration".

Personally, I don't mind a few remanufactured parts, but I draw the line on customization.
I feel offended to see a vintage car dressed up with custom car accessories all over it.

If you want a stereo, bring a boombox. If you want to charge your phone, bring a power pack.
Don't mutilate a vintage classic with junk like that.

I have both.

My '21 has varnished spokes, because I bought it that way. One-by-one, I made new spokes and replaced those wheels, but since it was one at a time, I varnished the new spokes as well. (Didn't want to mix & match)

My '26 Fordor was my grandfather's car. It had painted spokes when new, and it has painted spokes now. (Same spokes actually)

And, sin of sins, my '25 Touring has 26/27 wire wheels, painted metallic blue! The very idea!

Bottom line: It's only paint/varnish. Nothing about it is permanent. My varnished wheels could easily be painted, my painted wheels can be respoked and varnished, my wire wheels can be replaced with the original wheels, which I still have, (BTW, those spokes are cream colored, by my dad, circa 1940).

Concluding statement: I like Model T's! Yours, mine & everyone elses!

P.S. What is a restoration? I dunno... means different things to different people I guess. I think that's okay.

Are you restoring your Model T or preserving your Model T?

Restoration is defined as the act or process of accurately depicting the form, features, and character of a vehicle as it appeared at a particular period of time by means of the removal of features from other periods in its history and reconstruction of missing features from the restoration period. The limited and sensitive upgrading of mechanical, electrical, and cooling systems and other required work to make the vehicle functional is appropriate within a restoration project.

Preservation is defined as the act or process of applying measures necessary to sustain the existing form, integrity, and materials of a period vehicle. Work, including preliminary measures to protect and stabilize the vehicle, generally focuses upon the ongoing maintenance and repair of historic materials and features rather than extensive replacement and new mechanical repairs. New exterior additions are not within the scope of this treatment; however, the limited and sensitive upgrading of mechanical, electrical, and cooling systems and other required work to make the vehicle functional is appropriate within a preservation project.

Maybe it comes down to how did you car appear at a particular period of time...

Water pump? Go for it. Mobile telephone charger..charge the unit before you leave home....

From: https://www.nps.gov/tps/standards/four- ... vation.htm

Merriam-Webster Definition of the word restore
-to put or bring back into existence or use
-to bring back to or put back into a former or original state
Perhaps an additional word should be used to indicate the goal of the restoration
Restored/Factory Correct i.e. re-manufactured (has accessories original to that vehicle model/year)
Restored/Period Correct i.e. as might appear in its day (with aftermarket accessories)
Restored/Personal Preference i.e. its the way I like it
Restored /Serviced i.e drive-able

TRDxB2 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:45 pm

Merriam-Webster Definition of the word restore
-to put or bring back into existence or use
-to bring back to or put back into a former or original state
Perhaps an additional word should be used to indicate the goal of the restoration
Restored/Factory Correct i.e. re-manufactured (has accessories original to that vehicle model/year)
Restored/Period Correct i.e. as might appear in its day (with aftermarket accessories)
Restored/Personal Preference i.e. its the way I like it
Restored /Serviced i.e drive-able

Excellent. While you're reading the dictionary, I'll go out for a drive in my restored T

I'm bothered by a restoration that has obvious modern features added; like digital gauges, LED lighting or even custom floor mats.
I don't mind if it has modern reproduction parts, as long as they conform to the original. Nothing irks me like seeing an alternator on a vintage vehicle.

In my mind, even if most of the car is new, I can still live the experience of what the car was like new, if it has been faithfully reproduced.

Since the question was asked “what’s a restoration” here’s some pics to ponder the question .
Theses cars are 1926 ModelT Coupes.

--

How would you have restored this one owner 1919 Ford Model T Coupe?
--
--

---
Note: The engine & chassis are from a 1927. Wire wheels, nickle radiator shroud, gray-green striped velour upholstery. All replaced parts are original but may not be 100% year correct. Has gray-green striped velour upholstery.

TRDxB2 wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:14 pm

--

How would you have restored this one owner 1919 Ford Model T Coupe?
--

hford.png


---
Note: The engine & chassis are from a 1927. Wire wheels, gray-green striped velour upholstery. All replaced parts are original but may not be 100% year correct. Has gray-green striped velour upholstery.

You are leaving out a KEY piece of information??
Isnt this a car owned by Henry Ford himself? He upgraded.
Without that designation, its still period correct.
With the designated historical ownership it is in a different class. Its not a 19 coupe, its a historical vehicle as owned by a famous person. If it were to be "restored", it should look "incorrect" as it does
Yes, its a mish-mash(upgrade) of incorrect parts on a 19.

Your example doesnt justify alternators, Phillips screws, disk brakes, a 350 chevy motor or a purple metallic paint job etc.
Its like the judge said. I cant describe pornography, but I know it when I see it.

If you know the provenance - big word - it would be restored accordingly. If the car was indeed belonging to the inventor of the automobile, then his modifications would be part of the restoration.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:33 pm

TRDxB2 wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:14 pm

--

How would you have restored this one owner 1919 Ford Model T Coupe?
--

hford.png


---
Note: The engine & chassis are from a 1927. Wire wheels, gray-green striped velour upholstery. All replaced parts are original but may not be 100% year correct. Has gray-green striped velour upholstery.

You are leaving out a KEY piece of information??
Isnt this a car owned by Henry Ford himself? He upgraded.
Without that designation, its still period correct.
With the designated historical ownership it is in a different class. Its not a 19 coupe, its a historical vehicle as owned by a famous person. If it were to be "restored", it should look "incorrect" as it does
Yes, its a mish-mash(upgrade) of incorrect parts on a 19.

Your example doesnt justify alternators, Phillips screws, disk brakes, a 350 chevy motor or a purple metallic paint job etc.
Its like the judge said. I cant describe pornography, but I know it when I see it.

Model T’s became the most common used cars for many years after the mid 20’s thru the 30’s. T owners for the most part would go to the local wrecking yards to get replacement parts that would fit. They weren’t interested if it was for an earlier model but that it would fit whatever their car was. We know lots of parts would fit if you’re interested in Model T’s like most of us are.

To name one that was interchangeable was the low cowl wood firewall with the low cowl steel firewall. A purist nowdays wouldn’t like that but it was done more than a few times in the Model T era. After all it was under hood so you couldn’t see it.

Let us define what is and what is not a restoration;
To restore something means to rebuild to a standard as close to new state when originally built as possible.
To preserve is to do anything to maintain an object in its present state, keeping it's history intact.
To recreate is to build an object from as much period correct parts so as to end up with an object looking and functioning as a object from the period.
To replicate is to build from scratch an object that in every detail is an exact replica of the original.

Of course one can do with one's own car as one sees fit, with a few exceptions: don't touch Henry's personal car, don't cut a Rembrandt to size so it fits over your couch, do not fly and crash the last remaining original Wright Flyer

Dear Steve,

It is soooo nice to see your post here. Welcome back. Your continuing recovery is an answer to many prayers. My hope is your restoration meets your specifications.

Don

Most restorations that I have seen (not just for automobiles) have been able to achieve a balance between restoring those components which have deteriorated with age, back to proper function. And preserving the patina and other signs of age, which do not otherwise impair normal function.

I agree and prefer to see this philosophy applied to restorations. I like to see it working properly, while still seeing how it has aged.

What I remember from when I was a boy in the late 1930's and on till about the early 1950's were the Model T's which I used to see almost every day either parked in town or driving by our house. They were used for many years longer than most cars today, because of the depression and later the WW II. Most of the T's had been repaired many times since they were new, but still were Model T's. The parts were not always correct for the year, but were basically interchangeable. even the engine numbers were changed. When I bought used engines, I got a bill of sale from the former owner and the DMV would change the Engine number on my papers, so you couldn't tell the exact year model even from the registration papers.
I like to see the wood wheels on pre 26 cars. The later wood wheels with detacable rims are more convenient to change tires and the steel felloes are stronger than the wood ones, but only a "Purist" would know the difference.
I do bit, however, like the wire spoke wheels unless they are after market wheels. I think it is selfish or those with earlier cars to hoard the 26-27 wheels and hubs. Anyway that is my opinion, and might not agree with others.

I once painted a car with flat black primer and then fogged it with red oxide primer just to make it look like an old rusty car! But I only participate in shows with no fee to enter and no prizes awarded. My cars are drivers and when they break, I fix them.
Norm

What fun would a model T car show be if all of them were correctly restored ?
I love to see all the different cars with their history showing, the self built pickup bodies and other personal 'customisations' that were done to keep the cars running and earning a buck or two !
And i love speedsters and racers too, no racer ever thought a second about hacking some piece off if it made the car just a fraction faster than the competition
And what about camper conversions, the ingenuity that went into building some of them is incredible !
Restorations ? Nahh, not so entertaining

Once, long ago, there was a thread similar in length to this one concerning "What looks good"? The overall consensus was that white tires look better on painted wheels than on varnished natural wood while black tires look better on varnished wood wheels. So, maybe, another element to this discussion is aesthetics, what looks good to the owner?

This author believes in having the cars as close to original as possible, commensurate with safety (I have applied turn signals and brake lights on my drivers to help ensure I, and my family, get home alive), and commensurate with preserving any interesting and meaningful changes that are the product of history (I am not fond of bullet holes in the body...neither Bonnie nor Clyde ever sat in your car...but, if the holes are from law enforcement as opposed to twelve-year-old squirrel hunters, then keep them, by all means). Summed up, all of the above notions and ideas contained in this long thread come down, in the end, to judgement calls by the owner. This author believes the hobby is big enough to accommodate all.

I think the early brass cars look better with the tops up, but the later "one man" tops look better down. Just my opinion.
Norm

Norman Kling wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 22, 2023 10:34 am

I think the early brass cars look better with the tops up, but the later "one man" tops look better down. Just my opinion.
Norm

Well I agree partially, yes the one man tops do look better down. There's something about all that "open space" just doesn't seem right, can't explain it. I'm 50/50 on the brass cars with top up, they do look better than later cars, but man they're so much FUN driving with the top down regardless of the model year! And the brassies really don't look that bad with the top down, especially if you "dress em up" with a nice, correct (ahem) top boot! And lets face it, easier to get in and out of!!

Top pic of Clara is most recent with the white tires, middle pic with blacks was few years ago after re-restoring her.

Just for the record, my '27 came with black spokes and silver rims. The car is (and was) green with black fenders. Steve would have approved. I didn't like the black spokes and hated the (correct) silver rims. I spent about 40-50 hours each hand-sanding the originally black but half-baked previous attempt to turn them into natural wood wheels. I have now done two of the wheels, and I think I'll probably have the other two respoked. The time involved in hand-sanding them just doesn't cut it with me anymore. I'll probably repaint the silver rims (done to represent the original Cadmium plating) black. I still hate the look of the silver rims - but as has been said many times before here - It's your car. In this case my car.

I'm sure it is easier to get in and out with the top down, however The reason I like the look is all the additional bows and the straps and rods in front and the straight windshield. It is much more complicated and just like to look at it!
Norm

There is a snobbery amongst vintage automobile owners.

A car can be a trailer queen or a driver. It doesn't matter, if not used the car will deteriorate , if driven it wears out. A no win.

Historic building generally survive from use and adaptation. Same can be observed with automobiles.

An automobile parked in a barn decays.

So if you want to preserve an automobile, read what you can, and pick what you are comfortable.

See: https://simeonemuseum.org/around-the-we ... tomobiles/ -- Book ( The Stewardship of Historically Important Automobiles Hardcover – January 1, 2012
by Fred Simeone (Author), Miles Collier (Author), ). "Coming from and driven by Fred Simeone and his Simeone Automotive Foundation, the book is an attempt to start a conversation about the role of preservation and stewardship - not of cars, but of important historical objects that happen to be cars.

https://fiva.org/en/fiva-home/ - FIVA defines it as a mechanically propelled road vehicle at least 30 years old, preserved and maintained in a historically correct condition, which is not used as means of daily transport and which is therefore part of our technical and cultural heritage.

https://aaca.org/ -- AACA celebrates ANY car that is more than 25 years old.

The positives of having varnished wheels VS body color is (a) you can see what kind of wood is there (you REALLY want white oak spokes?) and (b) IF they deteriorate you can see it easier.

Offered for what its worth... it's your car, you can do what you want to... but if I see that really pretty cherry stained oak spokes it makes me concerned about the overall safety of the car.

Nice to have you back Steve!

24 years ago, I bought a 1926 Roadster with New Old Stock Model T Wood wheels. The fenders and trunk were also new old stock and a lot of the other parts that had been collected for 20 years when the restoration was started. The wheels came from 3 different original Model T garages. None of the wheels were painted when they were purchased. The theory then was that all the repro wheels were not painted, and all the original wheels were painted black.

Oak spokes are pretty, however, they are brittle and split easily. The best wood wheels are Hickory.
Norm