Which Switch

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ModelTED
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Which Switch

Post by ModelTED » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:39 pm

Trying to identify the switch in the photos. I would like to learn what years this switch is for and whether it would be period correct to put on my 24 touring project.
20210427_210314807_iOS.jpg
20210423_171114244_iOS.jpg

Any info is appreciated.

Ted
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20210423_171103399_iOS.jpg

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Humblej
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Re: Which Switch

Post by Humblej » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:42 pm

Comments deleted, as others have provided better information than I have.
Last edited by Humblej on Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.


speedytinc
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Re: Which Switch

Post by speedytinc » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:43 pm

This a '19 switch. Not correct on a 24.

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CudaMan
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Re: Which Switch

Post by CudaMan » Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:45 pm

Looks earlier, like 1919-1920. While not correct for a 1924, it would be pretty desirable and somebody would probably be happy to trade you a later switch for it, IMO. :)

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80 ... 1258071835
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John kuehn
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Re: Which Switch

Post by John kuehn » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:48 pm

Don’t the 19 switch’s have the cast or solid piece switch handle? The later ones aren’t that way or at least mine aren’t on my 3 T’s. It’s also a Clum switch which is fairly scarce. This ones looks to be pretty good.


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Re: Which Switch

Post by speedytinc » Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:57 pm

It is the cast one. You are not used to seeing one in this good a condition. Clum did make these early switches. The back markings are exceptional also.
Somebody with a 19 should have it.


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Re: Which Switch

Post by Janet_Block » Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:54 pm

Gentlemen

Attached is the patent for the Lock Switch invented by Harry A. Clum that I believe is in your photograph.

The patent was filed on 10/16/1916 but the patent was not granted until 7/24/1923.
The inventor could have produced and sold this item as early as 1 year prior to the filing date which is 10/16/1916.

Per the patent, the intent of the switch is as follows:

(1) provide unitary lock switch in which one of the switches is unlocked by the insertion of a key and the other switch is unlocked by a partial turning of the key, both switches being automatically locked when he key is withdrawn from the lock.

(2) provide a lock switch in which the polarity of the contact points of the ignition switch is automatically changed each time the switch is turned off and on to eliminate the injurious pitting and sticking of the contact points.

(3) provide a lock switch in which the parts are locked together by means of a plurality of reciprocal tumbler plates controlled by a key having its opposite edges of reverse irregular shape.

(4) provide a lock switch in which the key is locked to the switch and cannot be removed while the ignition portion of the switch is in the 'on' position.

(5) provide lock switch in which the parts may be assembled in contruction or separated for repairs in a very simple manner.

(6) provide lock switch in which the ignition circuit portion of the switch may be locked by turning the key to any one of a plurality of positions.

Hope this helps.

Janet
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Re: Which Switch

Post by DanTreace » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:19 pm

That Clum style is the later version, obsoleted in late '20, was the 2nd version of the heavy cast nickel plated lever. Used from approx. July '19 to late '20. Record state obsoleted in 1922, but that was drawing obsolete, this style cast lever was out of production before 1922.

T-7675-DR_07-25-1919  .jpg

Another version used two rivets to attach to the plate.
Two mounting rivet style Clum9 .jpg
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Re: Which Switch

Post by ModelTED » Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:41 pm

Wow, great info. I have a set of keys that came with the switch. I will take pictures tomorrow and post those as well. Keys are fairly rusty.

Ted

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ModelTED
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Re: Which Switch

Post by ModelTED » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:00 pm

Here are a set of "keys"? that were with the switch when I received it. The four whole keys look like "templates" ? Any one know what these are?
20210428_181634239_iOS (2).jpg



Also a 56 key that is broke off.
20210428_182750581_iOS (2).jpg
20210428_182758853_iOS (2).jpg

Also the switch is a 54;
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20210428_180858671_iOS (2).jpg

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Re: Which Switch

Post by CudaMan » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:47 pm

The four keys are "master" keys that somebody removed the hollow rivet from. Note that each key has a series of numbers denoting which range of key numbers it covers.

Here is an Ebay listing of a set of master keys with the rivet still in place (or possibly replaced with a rubber grommet?):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/373554461768?h ... SwsIVghKeM
Mark Strange
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ModelTED
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Re: Which Switch

Post by ModelTED » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:32 pm

Cudaman,

What is the purpose of the master Keys? And if they are used by a dealer as a grinding template to create keys from, then what distinguishes the 6 keys on the same master key?

Ted


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Re: Which Switch

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:34 pm

The master keys are hard thin steel, and can break if used carelessly too often. They are made that way because they go into the lock without regard to the 'horizontal' slit in the key. The numbers represent the coded tumbler cut positions (no I don't have a translation for those), and the 'horizontal' slot in the key positions the key in a specific up/down so that a typical key will only work a specific single number lock. Without the slot, the master key sort of 'self centers'. Simple, yet effective.


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Re: Which Switch

Post by speedytinc » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:41 pm

The position of the slot/groove and which side of the key it is located. 3 slots(hi low middle) X 2 front or back. The 4 masters each have a distinctive tooth pattern.

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ModelTED
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Re: Which Switch

Post by ModelTED » Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:11 pm

Who used the master keys? Dealers? LockSmiths? Just to start cars or to use as templates to grind new keys?


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Re: Which Switch

Post by J1MGOLDEN » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:26 pm

The key cylinder is different in this Clum switch from all the later ones and is not available.

Those cylinders are often broken in the thin areas on the top and bottom of the key slot.

That renders most of these switches worthless. This cylinder looks good!

A new #54 key is still available, I may have one or two of them.

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Re: Which Switch

Post by Susanne » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:47 pm

Dealer Keys. It's easier to grab the master set to bring cars in and out, move them around, etc... that way the keys for the car didn't get lost. I'm not sure how many were available outside the "official Ford network" but if you ran a shop or dealership garage where you worked on a lot of cars, it would have been a huge saving of time...

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Re: Which Switch

Post by DanTreace » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:49 pm

ModelTED wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:11 pm
Who used the master keys? Dealers? LockSmiths? Just to start cars or to use as templates to grind new keys?
Master key sets were sold to dealers or service stations, parking lot attendants, or anyone wanting to start any Ford car. Fairly common in the day.
There were no 'key blanks' for the Model T Ford. Only finished keys with the # stamped on the key to match the # stamped on the ignition switch.

Agents, shops, hardware stores, etc, everywhere sold new keys for the Ford, many had nice display boards showing the individual keys.

Of course a "master set" made it easy, you didn't need a bag full of all the 24 keys. :D
IMG_0003.JPG
Master set.jpg
Key board .jpg
Key board .jpg (95.39 KiB) Viewed 2649 times
Image 5-3-20 at 12.43 PM.jpeg
Image 5-3-20 at 12.43 PM.jpeg (108.54 KiB) Viewed 2649 times
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
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Re: Which Switch

Post by TRDxB2 » Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:15 pm

ModelTED wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:11 pm
Who used the master keys? Dealers? LockSmiths? Just to start cars or to use as templates to grind new keys?
And men in striped suites
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ModelTED
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Re: Which Switch

Post by ModelTED » Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:17 pm

Dan, Susanne, Jim,

Helps solve some curiosity. I learn 2-3 things about the Ts every day. I am going to keep the master key set as part of my collection. Since my 3 Ts are 22, 23, 24 and this switch is from a 19, I agree with comment above that it would be best for someone with a 19 to own it. I am planning on selling on the forum classifieds. I will use the proceeds to help fund the 24 touring project.

Regards,
Ted


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Re: Which Switch

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:58 pm

To answer the question "Who used the keys?" I have seen (years ago) era advertisements that anybody could buy the master set if they wanted to. Although very few people actually did buy them. Of course, dealers would have a master set, or several, for all sorts of reasons. Dealers also almost always had a display board with a couple to a few of each and every key number used, so they didn't often really need the master set. However, sometimes, the master set was just a handy thing to have. Mostly, every auto repair shop in almost every town from coast to coast had to have at least one master set. How else to start a customer's car when the customer dropped it off by their door without the key? In large cities, parking lot attendants probably had a set handy.
Thieves hardly ever bothered with a master set. A model T was too easy to hot-wire. And thieves knew that. The master set of keys were mostly a convenience for many businesses that maybe needed one occasionally.

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