....many motors did Henry Ford manufacture
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....many motors did Henry Ford manufacture
If Henry Ford is responsible for 15 Million Automobiles. How many motors did Henry Ford manufacture? Looking at the history of the Model T, there are Model T motors and drive trains in tanks, mowers, tractors, construction equipment and more. Or are these motors that appear in non-automobile use, salvaged from wrecks? What was the manufacture number/serial sequence of the other motors?
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Re: ....many motors did Henry Ford manufacture
Parameters needed...I assume you mean motors during the Model T era. Tractor engine weren’t Model T engines. A better question would be ‘How many different transmissions did Henry manufacture in the Model T era?’ Marine, aero, Fordson and probably more - were all different.
I’ve always been amazed that a sliding gear transmission was produced by Ford in 1917 (tractor) yet he continued with planetary for the next 10 years.....now someone shoot holes in my discourse .
I’ve always been amazed that a sliding gear transmission was produced by Ford in 1917 (tractor) yet he continued with planetary for the next 10 years.....now someone shoot holes in my discourse .
Last edited by George House on Tue May 11, 2021 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
I don’t know why I turned out this way. My parents were decent people.
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Re: ....many motors did Henry Ford manufacture
I have read somewhere that some 330,000 T engines were produced after T car production ceased. The last T motor was built around 1940. The excess T engines were sold for general replacements and sundry other uses. As I understand it, these were complete, assembled engines. I haven't seen any information on production of T engine parts by Ford after 1917. I don't know if the engines produced after 1927 were engine/transmission units, or just engine assemblies.
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Re: ....many motors did Henry Ford manufacture
This subject has always interested me. Probably because somewhat over fifty years ago, a model A parts dealer bought about fifty warehouse/factory tug tractors that had Model A engines in them. They had special serial numbers on the motors put there by the company that manufactured the tugs. It didn't take much effort to find that Ford was also selling engines during the model T years. Over the years, there have been numerous discussions at club meetings and on forums, as well as a few articles in club magazines.
Generally, there does not appear to be much in the way of records of these sales. Correctly or incorrectly, these have sometimes been referred to as 'Back Door' engines. They were most likely wholesaled out through the replacement parts departments, and offered in a variety of choices. Everything from complete engines, sometimes used in railroad service cars, on through long blocks, short blocks, with or without flywheel, with crankcase pan or without. It is known that many thousands of engines were sold out for all sorts of marine, industrial, and farming uses.
Some farming equipment required just a bit more horse power than a standard T, but the machinery company liked the Ford parts availability to service the engines on their equipment. So they ordered short blocks and equipped them with Matco distributors, high compression heads, and high performance carburetors. Some speedster owners today might be surprised to learn their 'speed' engine actually came out of a grain reaper!
Marine engine kits were manufactured by dozens of companies and varied greatly! Most required special pans and oil pumps because they didn't use the flywheel to circulate the oil. Quite a few of the original marine engines survive in private collections.
Most of these 'special uses' motors got special serial numbers assigned by the manufacturing company that used them. Most 'back door' engines left the factory with no serial numbers on them. Some manufacturing companies didn't bother putting serial numbers on them. If they did get a serial number, it usually consisted of two or three letters, usually initials of the manufacturing company. Followed by two to four numerals, being their short run serial number.
These engines, and their funky serial numbers show up from time to time. Occasionally someone will share their model T they bought with an odd serial number. When the equipment, or boat wore out or was beaten beyond repair, the engines often got traded to some local engine rebuilding shop who would just add the odd motors into the maybe rebuild pile. Many hundreds of such motors were rebuilt and sold by these small engine rebuilding shops as ready replacements for the locals still driving a model T during the depression or WW2. Some of these shops continued supplying model T engines even into the 1950s. Over the years, some of those boat motors got standard model T engine blocks, while the boat engine blocks found their way into cars. All sorts of serial number confusion.
Twice, over the years, I have run into someone oh so proud! Why, they found and bought an early 1909 engine! But, why does it have a generator? And why the iron hogshead with a starter? And, their book says the serial number for 1909 was down below the valve covers but theirs is up where the later ones were? And what are these two letters before the four digit serial number?
Uh, yeah. Another later tug motor.
Unfortunately, nobody so far seems to know just how many such engines were made and sold by Ford.
Generally, there does not appear to be much in the way of records of these sales. Correctly or incorrectly, these have sometimes been referred to as 'Back Door' engines. They were most likely wholesaled out through the replacement parts departments, and offered in a variety of choices. Everything from complete engines, sometimes used in railroad service cars, on through long blocks, short blocks, with or without flywheel, with crankcase pan or without. It is known that many thousands of engines were sold out for all sorts of marine, industrial, and farming uses.
Some farming equipment required just a bit more horse power than a standard T, but the machinery company liked the Ford parts availability to service the engines on their equipment. So they ordered short blocks and equipped them with Matco distributors, high compression heads, and high performance carburetors. Some speedster owners today might be surprised to learn their 'speed' engine actually came out of a grain reaper!
Marine engine kits were manufactured by dozens of companies and varied greatly! Most required special pans and oil pumps because they didn't use the flywheel to circulate the oil. Quite a few of the original marine engines survive in private collections.
Most of these 'special uses' motors got special serial numbers assigned by the manufacturing company that used them. Most 'back door' engines left the factory with no serial numbers on them. Some manufacturing companies didn't bother putting serial numbers on them. If they did get a serial number, it usually consisted of two or three letters, usually initials of the manufacturing company. Followed by two to four numerals, being their short run serial number.
These engines, and their funky serial numbers show up from time to time. Occasionally someone will share their model T they bought with an odd serial number. When the equipment, or boat wore out or was beaten beyond repair, the engines often got traded to some local engine rebuilding shop who would just add the odd motors into the maybe rebuild pile. Many hundreds of such motors were rebuilt and sold by these small engine rebuilding shops as ready replacements for the locals still driving a model T during the depression or WW2. Some of these shops continued supplying model T engines even into the 1950s. Over the years, some of those boat motors got standard model T engine blocks, while the boat engine blocks found their way into cars. All sorts of serial number confusion.
Twice, over the years, I have run into someone oh so proud! Why, they found and bought an early 1909 engine! But, why does it have a generator? And why the iron hogshead with a starter? And, their book says the serial number for 1909 was down below the valve covers but theirs is up where the later ones were? And what are these two letters before the four digit serial number?
Uh, yeah. Another later tug motor.
Unfortunately, nobody so far seems to know just how many such engines were made and sold by Ford.
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Re: ....many motors did Henry Ford manufacture
I've seen several differing figures from different credible sources. It's pretty clear that thousands of engines were built by Ford after the end of car production. Thousands more may have been assembled from NOS parts by various entities. Many engine numbers appear to have been altered, some by Ford, prior to final sale. It's likely that many applications, automotive and others, consumed several engines. The Ford engines were numerous, cheap, and widley used. As labor prices increased, many rebuildable engines were likely scrapped in favor of a new, cheap NOS unit.
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Re: ....many motors did Henry Ford manufacture
One of the things that I love about Model T engines is the myriad of applications that they were eventually used for. I saw a video about one that had been converted into a stationary saw and I though that was super cool. One day I want to buy a small launch hull and put a T engine in it. I think that would be pretty awesome!
Here’s the saw link: https://youtu.be/2LMv_Y4axYw
Here’s the saw link: https://youtu.be/2LMv_Y4axYw
The Little Ford Will Ramble Right Along!
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Re: ....many motors did Henry Ford manufacture
Mark Strange
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Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
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Re: ....many motors did Henry Ford manufacture
Maybe it’s me but the answer seems relatively simple to my way of thinking. The sum of the number of cars (15007033) plus the replacement motor built between 1927 and 1941 (about 330000) plus the motors built in england that didn’t use US numbers plus the number built in Canada. All these can be found in the Encyclopedia so it shouldn’t take too much effort. If you want real accuracy you should deduct the numbers skipped that Bruce found in his research
I would hazard a guess that the total less than 16 million.
I would hazard a guess that the total less than 16 million.
Tony Bowker
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Re: ....many motors did Henry Ford manufacture
My "1911" speedster has a "1927" style engine with a 1941 serial number. Go figure!
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Re: ....many motors did Henry Ford manufacture
Assembled engines had serial numbers. Bare replacement blocks did not. No telling how many replacement blocks were sold.
The inevitable often happens.
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Re: ....many motors did Henry Ford manufacture
And to add to the confusion, there were aftermarket engine blocks made by other companies!
T'ake care,
David Dewey
David Dewey
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Re: ....many motors did Henry Ford manufacture
Those motors produced after the Model T - after 1927/28, who bought them and for what purpose? What other companies used the Model T Ford motor after the last car was produced? Names or brands would be helpful?
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Re: ....many motors did Henry Ford manufacture
The T power plants sold after the Model T was discontinued were sent to branch plant for sale to dealers, service, repair shops, etc.
That was the Ford way to keep the Model T owners which numbered into the many thousands happy to have new complete motors.
This bulletin was earlier, when Ford was jamming, sales soaring, and the factory couldn't supply finished engines for replacements, so Ford offered to dealers an 'assembly', the cylinder block was un-numbered, but was stuffed with parts to be a 'complete short block' rather than a bare block. Don't know how may were sold this way, or when the company stopped offering these.
Bulletin again confirming that only 'assembled complete engines ' got serial numbers, and bare cylinder block had none.
That was the Ford way to keep the Model T owners which numbered into the many thousands happy to have new complete motors.
This bulletin was earlier, when Ford was jamming, sales soaring, and the factory couldn't supply finished engines for replacements, so Ford offered to dealers an 'assembly', the cylinder block was un-numbered, but was stuffed with parts to be a 'complete short block' rather than a bare block. Don't know how may were sold this way, or when the company stopped offering these.
Bulletin again confirming that only 'assembled complete engines ' got serial numbers, and bare cylinder block had none.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
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Re: ....many motors did Henry Ford manufacture
Sixty dollars......... If only.....!!
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Re: ....many motors did Henry Ford manufacture
In these days of Bar codes labeling almost everything and bean counters in complete control, it’s easy to know what was actually built and sold. When the T was built, things were much more haphazard so I guess the 3% income tax was computed directly from the ledgers.
Even in the 1960’s Lotus built a series of cars with about fifty having duplicate numbers. I wonder if they paid tax on the profit on the twenty five cars with the duplicate numbers. Today the poor manufacturer and bean counters, have the ability to trace the smallest part with little room for error. Just imaging any manufacturer trying to hide the sale of twenty five vehicle out of 300 sold during the year.
I’m afraid in the early days the manufacturers were pushing them out the door as fast as possible with little or no warranty and as little paperwork as possible. When you read how the original Model T was costed in the Encyclopedia, all they were concern with was pushing as many as possible out the door and collecting the profits.
Even in the 1960’s Lotus built a series of cars with about fifty having duplicate numbers. I wonder if they paid tax on the profit on the twenty five cars with the duplicate numbers. Today the poor manufacturer and bean counters, have the ability to trace the smallest part with little room for error. Just imaging any manufacturer trying to hide the sale of twenty five vehicle out of 300 sold during the year.
I’m afraid in the early days the manufacturers were pushing them out the door as fast as possible with little or no warranty and as little paperwork as possible. When you read how the original Model T was costed in the Encyclopedia, all they were concern with was pushing as many as possible out the door and collecting the profits.
Tony Bowker
La Mesa, California
1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.
La Mesa, California
1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.
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Re: ....many motors did Henry Ford manufacture
In these days of Bar codes labeling almost everything and bean counters in complete control, it’s easy to know what is actually built and sold. When the T was built, things were much more haphazard, so I guess the 3% income tax was computed directly from the ledgers.
Even in the 1960’s Lotus built a series of cars with about fifty having duplicate numbers. I wonder if they paid tax on the profit on the twenty five cars with the duplicate numbers. Today the poor manufacturer, bean counters and tax collector have the ability to trace the smallest part with little room for error. Just imaging any manufacturer today trying to hide the sale of twenty five vehicle out of 300 sold during the year.
I’m afraid in the early days the manufacturers were pushing them out the door as fast as possible with little or no warranty and as little paperwork and traceability as possible. When you read how the original Model T was costed in the Encyclopedia, all they were concern with was pushing as many as possible out the door and collecting the profits.
Even in the 1960’s Lotus built a series of cars with about fifty having duplicate numbers. I wonder if they paid tax on the profit on the twenty five cars with the duplicate numbers. Today the poor manufacturer, bean counters and tax collector have the ability to trace the smallest part with little room for error. Just imaging any manufacturer today trying to hide the sale of twenty five vehicle out of 300 sold during the year.
I’m afraid in the early days the manufacturers were pushing them out the door as fast as possible with little or no warranty and as little paperwork and traceability as possible. When you read how the original Model T was costed in the Encyclopedia, all they were concern with was pushing as many as possible out the door and collecting the profits.
Tony Bowker
La Mesa, California
1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.
La Mesa, California
1914 Touring, 1915 Speedster, 1924 Coupe.
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Re: ....many motors did Henry Ford manufacture
The Question as I understand it, (How) may motors did Henry Ford manufacture, well he started with the "Kitchen Sink" motor, then migrated to the Quadricycle. The race car motors (Like 999 etc. ???) For the most part car production in the Early years was done by the Dodge Brothers machine shop. How many Ford motors were made by the Ford Motor Company up to Henry's passing, 30,000,000-40,000,000 also including WWII production. Who knows, who has the time left to figure it out? Certainly not me. George