Model A Crank using a Three Dip Pan

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Russ_Furstnow
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Model A Crank using a Three Dip Pan

Post by Russ_Furstnow » Tue May 11, 2021 11:50 am

I have a rebuilt 1913 engine with a Model A crank installed in the engine. Currently the engine has a "dimpled" four dip pan with an aluminum spacer between the pan and the inspection plate to accommodate the Model A crank.

I would like to install a modified three dip tea cup pan in place of the four dip pan. My biggest concern is the space between the pan inspection plate and the Model A rods and the fourth rod clearance on the three dip pan. I cannot say I have ever seen a three dip spacer, and the fourth rod clearance cannot be enlarged with a spacer.

Has anyone had any experience installing a three dip pan with a Model A crank conversion? All comments are appreciated. Thank you,
Russ Furstnow


Joe Bell
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Re: Model A Crank using a Three Dip Pan

Post by Joe Bell » Tue May 11, 2021 11:55 am

Are you using the Scat A crank or an original that has been shortened?


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Russ_Furstnow
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Re: Model A Crank using a Three Dip Pan

Post by Russ_Furstnow » Tue May 11, 2021 12:19 pm

I'm using an original Model A crank that has been modified to accept the Model T transmission. Russ Furstnow


speedytinc
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Re: Model A Crank using a Three Dip Pan

Post by speedytinc » Tue May 11, 2021 1:31 pm

At the least you would have to modify the pan for 4th rod clearance. 3 dip dipper spacer would be easy enough. The area between 3rd rod & 4th part of the pan is a big ? The back edge of the dip cover, on a 4 dip, has to have part of the pan edge removed to clear the crank.
I dont doubt that it can be done, but is the butchery to an early pan worth it?
At this point, I would mock it up & see what has to be cut.


Les Schubert
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Re: Model A Crank using a Three Dip Pan

Post by Les Schubert » Tue May 11, 2021 2:36 pm

I have heard that the early (13 and older) pan is just a bit wider where it attaches to the block and “dents” can be avoided.
I am really curious as to what you will encounter as I have a identical project in the “que”!!
A 13 block with my version of a modified A crank! The pan was a cut off early version I found that I rescued by welding it to later 3 dip pan back end!!
All the best


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Re: Model A Crank using a Three Dip Pan

Post by kmatt2 » Tue May 11, 2021 10:53 pm

I don't know if this will work or not but it is worth investigating. Back in the mid 1970's I was told by a older T engine builder that because we use the stock 4" Model T rods with add on dippers, taking up over a another 1/4", then stock 4 1/4" Model A rods with the dippers cut off will clear the inspection cover without the spacer. He said to add a oil dam in the back of the pan to rase the oil level to the rods with some drain back holes in the dam to return oil to sump. He didn't say anything one way or the other about needing the pan dimples. One more thing I know that he was using a Model A crankshaft with out added counter weights. Again I don't know if this will work for sure but it is worth checking out for your 1913 project.


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Re: Model A Crank using a Three Dip Pan

Post by got10carz » Tue May 11, 2021 11:00 pm

About 3 years ago there was a early pan at Chickasha that was dimpled. Think it was a 7 rivet, thought to myself what a shame! Didnt look inside at 4th rod.

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John Warren
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Re: Model A Crank using a Three Dip Pan

Post by John Warren » Wed May 12, 2021 8:37 am

I am thinking of doing something similar to keep the look of the needle nose and have the convenience of the four dip. I have a early pan needing some repair and was thinking of welding the nose of the early pan on a four dipper.
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Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something :P

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Henry K. Lee
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Re: Model A Crank using a Three Dip Pan

Post by Henry K. Lee » Wed May 12, 2021 9:24 am

John that is exactly what I have done in the past! Works the best.

Hank

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John Warren
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Re: Model A Crank using a Three Dip Pan

Post by John Warren » Fri May 14, 2021 11:00 am

Good to know Hank, Thanks jw
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Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something :P

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