MTFCA Forum

I have a new (2019) Bergs low (black) radiator. I put a motometer Jr. and winged cap on it. After 2000 miles the neck came loose and I had it soldered back on. Today, after 1200 additional miles, it appears to be coming loose again. After fixing it the first time I changed the wings to a dogbone (lighter weight) but kept the motometer.

I know Berg's warns about putting heavy caps on their radiators for that reason. I wonder if other radiator makers have that problem? If the supplied neck had a flange I would think there would be more to solder to but lacking that, is there anything that others have found to reinforce the neck? I was wondering about applying a bead of high-temp epoxy around the base of the neck to reinforce it. Anybody do that or have some other ideas?

I have a Bergs radiator on my 24 Coupe and no trouble so far. I do remember that when I replaced the neck on an older flat tube radiator that was on my 21 Touring the radiator itself had a slight lip on the top tank that I slightly pushed down on the lip of the new radiator neck. Now that I think about it it did help to hold the neck down just a little.
I had bought a new neck for it at Chickasha from Bergs and the neck had a lip all around the bottom.
I don’t know for sure if an original Ford radiator had that lip on the top tank. I can’t remember.
Bergs makes a good product I think and I wonder if the the neck coming loose on Fords original radiators was much of a issue. Just a thought!

A good, full contact solder job should be sufficient & better than epoxy.

On original radiators the hole in the top plate of the tank was flared upwards. When the neck was fitted the flare was bent over a lip on the inside of the neck. Thus there was a mechanical bond as well as the solder joint. I don't think any of the reproductions have the flare on the top plate, and they rely entirely on the solder to hold the neck in place. About the only thing you can do to make it a stronger joint is to use silver solder.

Allan from down under.

Hey Tim....I've had moto-meters on all my radiators...brass and black. Yup, Brassworks suggests ONLY dogbone caps on their "non-riveted" neck, very early rads. So that's what I do. My riveted neck has the wings. Neither have (so far) given any trouble. Likewise, on my former '20, '25TT Firetruck, and my current '25Fordor I have the dogbone motometer on those black rads, presumably Brassworks (well, the TT was, I bought it!!) and the Fordor is actually an original, round tube which still cools well! No problems on any of them ever. My point is, I find it hard to believe what with all the good comments about Bergs rads, that theirs cannot support even a dog bone cap. Somethin' aint right! Just my opinion buddy!

The other Tim

I've had two Berg's radiator necks come off in the first year of use. Moto-Meters on both. I use the stock cap now with no problems. These radiators cool really good but the necks won't stay on with all that extra weight.

I wonder if other radiator makers have that problem?

Yes, they do. I believe there have been forum posts about the same problem, with other radiators. That's one reason, even with an original Ford radiator, I use this kind of cap: Even on rough roads, a broken neck is not a worry.

My recored original radiator is not going to overheat, and neither will a Berg's. A motometer is superfluous.

If you are losing radiator necks because of ornaments, you need to find some better roads to drive on. I cannot comprehend a neck loosening up from that. A neck, at the minimum , should have a rolled edge on the bottom, to trap the top tank metal before soldering. Perhaps someone is skipping that easy step? Originals were done several ways but always had a rolled seam, not just set in place and soldered.

Originals were done several ways but always had a rolled seam, not just set in place and soldered.

Plus rivets for several years.

The early ones were riveted instead of rolled! I salvage a lot of necks to display ornaments on, and just did one yesterday. If the necks aren’t rolled into the top metal, OR the top metal isn’t rolled into the cap, they aren’t going to hold up. I’ve seen them both ways, I’ve also seen aftermarket rads also riveted, and rivets hidden under the steel shell.
This one has the top panel rolled into the neck, THEN soldered.
Tim, I’d think about taking it all the way off and then rolling the seam before soldering. It’s doable.

Grandpa hung his full water bag on his rad neck. We should be able to hang a little bling, if so inclined!

We had the same issue when we installed a larger winged moto meter on our radiator. The neck came loose and needed to be reattached. It was not easy to hold the neck to the top of the radiator and the only way I could make it work was to silver solder 3 spots around the neck for strength and fill in afterwards with regular solder to make it water tight. Has held for years and still seems strong with no leaks. Give it a try as it was not that hard but to me a good fix.

Great idea for a fix, Nick. A fix that shouldn’t hafta be. These are the simple things that make me crazy. These radiators are incredibly expensive compared to , say Model A rads. How much longer to just do it right to start with?

Tim,

I don't have a Berg's radiator, but for other reasons, I have one with a neck that's simply soldered on. For that reason, I use the simple, stock cap.

I would not use epoxy, or any other glue, because it will most likely come loose again one day, then you'll have to pick away every trace of epoxy in order to be able to solder it again.

The suggestion of silver solder seems like a good idea. (Real silver solder, not the junk they sell at Home Depot that they call silver solder.)

I'm going to pull the radiator on Sunday and call the radiator shop on Monday to see when I can get in. To cover the bases I ordered an aftermarket neck designed for a T but with a wider flange. Yeah, it's not original but if it holds better I'll use it. When I talk to the "radiator guy" I'll see what he thinks. Since the radiator isn't under pressure, I'm also considering putting a couple of aircraft-grade pop rivets in the flange if I go with the aftermarket one. I drive a "black" Model T and the motometer and cap are about the only "bling" I have. I hate to give them up

Jerry, I agree that any epoxy should be kept far away from any soldered areas. About all I can see using it for is to maybe seal a rivet head.

Don't hold me to it but it seems to me that when the neck was soldered on last time there was just a hole in the top tank. Nothing you could make a mechanical seal to. I've heard of some guys using a bolt and bar system to help hold the neck on but I'm not sure if I could design something that worked.

Before you get the idea that I'm dissatisfied with my Berg's radiator, aside from the neck issue it's fine. Good fit, never overheats.

As a precaution, take your radiator shell with you to the radiator shop. That way he can be sure it fits the shell and is soldered in the right spot. Some of the new repros have a hard time managing this.

Allan from down under.

I silver solder the neck on and they never come loose again.

I called my radiator guy today and learned that he had retired. He gave me the name of a shop an hour and a half away so I took the radiator over and had the original neck soldered back on. The flanged neck I ordered from Speedway will be returned as the flange sticks over the front edge of the radiator. By the way, the "guy" at the new shop is retiring this fall....

I guess I'm going to have to give up on "bling" for my radiator. I wish someone would make caps, dogbones, wings, motometers, etc. out of Aluminum so maybe the neck could support them.

Not trying to start this all over again but we all new the quality of BERGS is the highest from far offered. But why doesnt he do that weld do begin ?

I know Bergs is trying to keep their radiators as original as possible, and they do make a good radiator. That said, I wonder how many guys would be interested in the option of a neck with a wider flange, perhaps riveted to the radiator tank? After all, with the shroud on you can't see that area of the radiator anyway. I think that would be a good option for guys like me who would like some radiator "bling". Your thoughts?

Berg's make excellent radiators, but they are far from original in construction. The top tank and outlet are way different from the Ford items, so adding a neck with a flange will be of little consequence in the scheme of things. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Allan from down under.