MTFCA Forum

Need help!

I am attempting to track down my grandfather's 1926 Ford Model T Touring. Sold in Roanoke, VA to an individual in West Virginia. From the details provided to me and my personal recollection, here's what I know:

-Car sold here in Roanoke, VA by my uncle Doug around 2006-2008.
-Car was listed on eBay.
-Sold to John and Kathy Knoll of Fairmont, WV.
-Spoke with John Knoll on 6/3/21- John stated the car required some sort of transmission repair and was sold.
-John and Kathy Knoll sold the car to a John Howard from Morgantown, WV who owned two car dealerships. One in Waynesburg, PA and the other in Morgantown, WV.
-John Howard passed in 2013 and I’m being told this car may have been auctioned or sold off due to a bankruptcy settlement.

My grandfather Franklin Zirkle from Roanoke, VA was an avid Model T enthusiast with a very strong passion for the hobby. Over the years he restored two T's (the first being this '26) along with starting the local Model T chapter, the Cranky T's.

Personally, I was his first grandchild and was very close with him. I remember going for rides in this car over the years and those times are a big reason why I also share the same passion for this hobby as he did.

I realize this is a shot in the dark due to the nature of these cars but wanted to give myself the chance at the very least. If anyone has any leads, knowledge, ANYTHING.. please reach out to me as I would like to talk with you.

Attached are some photos of the car as it would have appeared around the time it sold. I included ones I could find trying to show each angle. Things that stand out to me that would make it somewhat unique would be the combination of the polished radiator shroud, front bumper, toolbox on passenger side running board and luggage rack (used to have an old type suitcase with it) on driver's side running board.

Thank you in advance for any help provided as this would truly mean the world to me to track this down. — in Salem, Virginia.

My contact information:
Jamie Weddle
Email: bjweddlejr@yahoo.com
Phone: 540-494-2416

Hello.
Since your Grandfather was instrumental in starting the local T chapter, the Cranky T’s ask anyone who was a member at the time or later if they knew the car was sold. It’s a long shot but they may have a lead if anyone of them or the chapter is still around.
Or it could be T clubs in the WestVirginia area might know about the car. It’s a long shot but it’s a place to start.

He ended up retiring from the club a couple years prior to his passing to focus on a couple books he wrote. I have spoken with the couple of members still around but when the T was inherited by my uncle and then sold, they weren’t involved enough to know where it ended up from the sounds of it. The WV groups is a good idea! I’ll see what I can find out going that route. Thank you!

Here’s another tip. I’m in Texas and here the car information is expunged from the State records after 25 years I believe. I wouldnt know about you states but it might be worth a try to find out from the states DMV or public safety departments about how long they keep their records.
You mentioned the buyer liked motorcycles also but finding about any more information from that would be a long shot. If you had a license plate number from other photographs would help too.
Your Grandfathers car looks pretty good from the pictures so quite possibly it’s still around.
Some Model T clubs have pictures of their cars on their websites but not all. That’s another long shot.
Good luck.

Perhaps your grandfather had a file containing information on the car such as Insurance information and registration with the DMV from which you can get the VIN number and license plate number, which is essential for finding that particular T. Maybe there are members of your family that has this information for sentimental reasons. Do you have any pictures of the rear of the car showing the horseless carriage license plate? If so, it might still have the same plate with which you can trace it. Are you hoping to buy it back? Even if you find it, there is no guarantee that the current owner will be willing to let it go, but, at least if found, you will know where it is and can keep an eye on it after you contact the owner and ask him to contact you if ever he wants to sell it. Good luck. Jim Patrick

Another distinguishing feature is shown on the picture of him hold a baby and sitting in the right front seat of the car. The inside of the front door shows a pocket added to the door. This is something that was added to the car along the way and very few Model T T Touring cars have something like that.
Finding the VIN number of the car as described above will help to locate it also.

Keith

jiminbartow wrote: ↑

Fri May 21, 2021 10:09 pm

Perhaps your grandfather had a file containing information on the car such as Insurance information and registration with the DMV from which you can get the VIN number and license plate number, which is essential for finding that particular T. Maybe there are members of your family that has this information for sentimental reasons. Do you have any pictures of the rear of the car showing the horseless carriage license plate? If so, it might still have the same plate with which you can trace it. Are you hoping to buy it back? Even if you find it, there is no guarantee that the current owner will be willing to let it go, but, at least if found, you will know where it is and can keep an eye on it after you contact the owner and ask him to contact you if ever he wants to sell it. Good luck. Jim Patrick

I have the license plate number that was on that car. How could I go about searching with that information? If the owner was willing, I would be going into this with the intention of purchasing. Otherwise like you said, at least I would know where it is.

KeithG wrote: ↑

Fri May 21, 2021 10:12 pm

Another distinguishing feature is shown on the picture of him hold a baby and sitting in the right front seat of the car. The inside of the front door shows a pocket added to the door. This is something that was added to the car along the way and very few Model T T Touring cars have something like that.
Finding the VIN number of the car as described above will help to locate it also.

Keith

I was wondering about that, I’ll make note of that too. Thanks for the input.

If you have a friend in the police department, he might be able to go into the system to see if he can find it using the plate number. They do it all the time before pulling someone over. If not, I would go online and contact the DMV’s of your state and ask them by email how to go about locating the current owner, using the plate number. I would also try to call the DMV and try to cultivate a relationship with a sympathetic rep. to go into the data base and take a look for you in yours and surrounding states. Jim Patrick

PS. I did an online “Bing” search asking the question: “Can I locate a car using the license plate number?”. A bunch of license plate search companies came up. Like a personal background check, there may be a monetary charge but it might be worth a try.

You don't see many Ts with the side wings on them either which might help narrow down the search. My Wife's Uncle had a black 1916 touring He had completely restored before he died in the eighties car was sold in Orlando and had red spokes. I wonder where it went. Good Luck with Your search.

Since most T's use the engine serial number to I.D. the car vs a vin number, and you feel that the car ended up in West VA. why don't you search the motor vehicle registry there under the motor number. Somehow you should be able to get the I.D. from past records where he lived. Just a thought!!

DickC has a good idea. Hopefully the records haven’t been expunged after so many years.

If the T was registered in Virginia, the Virginia DMV should have record of the engine number listed under your grandfather's name. Once you have the engine number, it should be possible to find the person who bought it through the W. VA DMV. I'm originally from MA and there they wouldn't release that sort of information to the public - it was only available to the police. You may have to find a friendly cop (possibly in both states) to get the information for you.

DickC wrote: ↑

Sat May 22, 2021 7:58 am

Since most T's use the engine serial number to I.D. the car vs a vin number, and you feel that the car ended up in West VA. why don't you search the motor vehicle registry there under the motor number. Somehow you should be able to get the I.D. from past records where he lived. Just a thought!!

All- thank you for your input, I’m listening and exploring all suggestions.

My brother-in-law who is a local police officer said he can only search back about 5 years.

Spoke with the DMV and they provided me with a form to fill out as an information request. They suggested I speak with the county it was garaged kept.

Contacted Roanoke County and they said they can check their records but would need my uncle (executor) and to come in person to request it. We will be going up there Friday.

Keep the information coming, I certainly appreciate it.

Assuming that the car was insured for at least liability, you may find records that way. The insurance company may have records.

It may show up on personal property tax records. So, check your own (uncle's) records.

eBay deletes its messages (email) for the seller rather quickly but a copy exists in the seller's personal email of those transactions.

When you go to check the County records they will probably be on paper in some form if they still exist. Maybe and this would be a long shot, they put them on microfilm sometime in the past. I would ask about that.

My brother-in-law who is a local police officer said he can only search back about 5 years.

Yes, unfortunately most states delete all that information after a few years.

5/27/21 Update:

Roanoke County had zero leads on the car with the help of my uncle (executor of my grandfather and relative who sold the car)

Was however able to find the eBay username of the person who purchased the car. Upon checking online I was able to see this username is still active from a March 2021 listing.

The purchasers live in/around Fairmont, West Virginia. Any leads from here would be great!

bjweddlejr87 wrote: ↑

Thu May 27, 2021 1:38 pm

5/27/21 Update:

Roanoke County had zero leads on the car with the help of my uncle (executor of my grandfather and relative who sold the car)

Was however able to find the eBay username of the person who purchased the car. Upon checking online I was able to see this username is still active from a March 2021 listing.

The purchasers live in/around Fairmont, West Virginia. Any leads from here would be great!

You can send the purchaser a message via eBay. You should e able to do this from the place you saw that hey were active

TRDxB2 wrote: ↑

Thu May 27, 2021 1:49 pm

bjweddlejr87 wrote: ↑

Thu May 27, 2021 1:38 pm

5/27/21 Update:

Roanoke County had zero leads on the car with the help of my uncle (executor of my grandfather and relative who sold the car)

Was however able to find the eBay username of the person who purchased the car. Upon checking online I was able to see this username is still active from a March 2021 listing.

The purchasers live in/around Fairmont, West Virginia. Any leads from here would be great!

You can send the purchaser a message via eBay. You should e able to do this from the place you saw that hey were active

Just sent a message to them, was able to do that.

Sounds like your getting close. Ck with the T chapters in the area where it was sold or the adjoining states. There are Model T folks who don’t join T chapters also. That
doesn’t mean the car is not in the area somewhere though. Hope you can find out more from the Ebay buyer. Message the person and go from there!

Long shot?

https://classiccars.com/listings/view/1 ... igan-49601

All-

I have updated the information in the original post with the current information regarding my search.

Any help from that will be greatly appreciated!

-Jamie
540-494-2416

Spoke with a Kenneth “Kenny” Stewart. Said he remembers going down and working on the car. Said to contact a William “Billy” Howard as he was there.

Spoke with Billy Howard and brother Paul Howard. Paul is doing some checking on his end.