PLEASE ...I need some advice with an Electrical problem

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avent40
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First Name: Anthony
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* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1922 Ford model t touring
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PLEASE ...I need some advice with an Electrical problem

Post by avent40 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:04 pm

I tried to take out my 1922 Ford Model T Touring from Storage since October 2019, today. Since then, I had the Generator, the cutout, and the Coils rebuilt. I charged the battery last night and when I connected the battery this morning, smoke came out of the ignition area and took off the ignition plate and saw the wire to to the ammeter was burnt and melted. I know I have to order another wire but, what is causing this and what can I do to figure this out? Maybe disconnect the wire to the cutout? I was so eager to get it back on the road after a year and half and was so upset what happened this morning. Their is no Model T mechanics in Staten island, Can anybody suggest what to do? Thanks, God bless!


speedytinc
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Re: PLEASE ...I need some advice with an Electrical problem

Post by speedytinc » Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:22 pm

Direct short to ground. Yes, disconnect the cutout. That eliminates cutout & generator. "Cutout rebuilt?" what does that mean? New diode?{in backwards}? Replaced with a cheap unit? Wire it back up. Leave the cutout disconnected. Touch the +battery terminal with the cable. There should be no spark, if so, something is on or grounded. How are the starter switch insulators? Trace the wires. Could a rat eaten some insulation?


Topic author
avent40
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Re: PLEASE ...I need some advice with an Electrical problem

Post by avent40 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:26 pm

Yes, I did get a spark when I connected the battery. If I disconnect the cutout, will the rebuilt generator still charge the battery? Would you think a voltage regulator will work better? Thanks


Kerry
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Re: PLEASE ...I need some advice with an Electrical problem

Post by Kerry » Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:31 pm

Do not run the engine with the wire off the cut out, that will burn out you generator, you need to earth the generator to stop it from producing power.


speedytinc
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Re: PLEASE ...I need some advice with an Electrical problem

Post by speedytinc » Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:44 pm

With the cutout disconnected, do you still get the spark? If no, its got to be the cut out. Now, if you are going to run it with the cut out disconnected, Ground the generator output terminal to ground. that will keep you from burning up the generator. And no, it wont generate power. You need another cutout or equivalent.


speedytinc
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Re: PLEASE ...I need some advice with an Electrical problem

Post by speedytinc » Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:56 pm

Its my understanding, the fun projects V regulator is not available. (best product?) A diode type cutout may be available from venders. An after market H/D cutout & home made diode conversions are what i run. The aftermarket units typically are larger, square boxes mounted on generator. (dont look OEM) The cheap mechanical cutouts commonly fail & take out the generator. Stay away from those.


kmatt2
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Re: PLEASE ...I need some advice with an Electrical problem

Post by kmatt2 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:09 pm

First of all don't run you car with the cut out wire disconnected with out grounding the generator field, you risk burning up you rebuilt generator. To ground the field run a wire from generator output terminal to the generator case at cut out mount screw. Did you acidently get a solid state cut for a Model A with positive ground ? After replacing the burnt wiring try putting your old stock cut out back on the generator. As others have said, check the wiring for signs of rodent damage, also make sure you reconnected battery to Model T stock negative ground.

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Novice
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Re: PLEASE ...I need some advice with an Electrical problem

Post by Novice » Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:32 pm

Anthony. Sorry about Your electrical problem. as others have mentioned cut out is a good place to start. If Your car has a fuse did it blow. if Your car is not fused You might want to consider adding one. My 26 touring shot sparks out of the Ignition switch the first night I tried the lights no fuse but all my Ts have them now. are the burnt wires on both sides of the amp meter or just one. may be shorted light / ignition switch some of the repo switches are junk. If just one wire burnt could be shorted amp meter wire/lug. If both are burnt short down the line somewhere possibly cut out. simple way to check for the short is using a test light. when You check the wiring to the amp meter and other wiring it will light up if the wire or circuit You check is shorted. also look for other burnt looking wires and make sure all terminal lugs are clean and snug. I am not a model T electrical guru but have been around the block a time or two.
Good Luck


Caswell
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Re: PLEASE ...I need some advice with an Electrical problem

Post by Caswell » Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:35 pm

May sound like a dumb comment but you are connecting - to ground (frame) and + to the start switch , right.

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TRDxB2
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Re: PLEASE ...I need some advice with an Electrical problem

Post by TRDxB2 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:31 pm

avent40 wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:04 pm
I tried to take out my 1922 Ford Model T Touring from Storage since October 2019, today. Since then, I had the Generator, the cutout, and the Coils rebuilt. I charged the battery last night and when I connected the battery this morning, smoke came out of the ignition area and took off the ignition .....
Several questions, to better understand the current situation:
Running a 6 volt system? yes/no
Had you run the T with the rebuilt generator, the cutout before this incident?
Can we assume that the cutout you had rebuilt was done with a diode and not the old solenoid?
Who rebuilt the cut-out? Externally Model T & A cut-outs look similar BUT T's are negative ground and A's are positive ground - an A will give you a spark.
Is the bottom of the screw that attaches the wire to the ammeter touching the generator housing? Can happen if to long or by bending the connection downward when tightening the screw
Do you know what they set the amperage output of the generator at? Reason the Diode Cut-Out Langs sells says its rated for 5 amps (likely as a safety precaution) and can more but it would be worth knowing in any case.
Test it
Take the cutout off the the generator, you don't want to test it connected (avoid possible damage to the generator). Disconnect the negative battery connection. Place the cutout on a non-conductive surface - wire the end that you have going to the ammeter to the positive terminal of your battery. Connect a wire to the generator input side of the cutout. Now take that wire an touch the negative post of the battery - if it sparks then its the cutout - if not something else.

NOTE:
I rebuilt a cutout with a diode it all checked out okay, even with a diode checker on my ammeter. Insulated everything internally, hooked it up and when the ground strap made contact to the battery it gave a small spark. I will be checking out a second diode I have Tomorrow and will report the findings. I'll be performing the above test on both the problem cutout and the second diode.
Attachments
diode.png
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
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