MTFCA Forum

Hello there,

New to the forum. I bought my 1917 Touring from my grandfather about 6 years ago. It needed new fellows and spokes so I had them made/replaced by Calimer's Wheel Shop in PA. I only live 2 hours from him in Reading, PA. The spokes were always black from the time I was a baby. After they were replaced, I left them the natural hickory wood color, knowing that once they go black, ill never go back. I'm perplexed. I love the natural wood color, it kind of visually "pops" and draws peoples eyes to the wheels but on the other hand, I desperately miss the "all black" look.

Please help me out with some opinions. First is a "before" picture, second is the "current".

Thanks in advance, Colin

I have a 1917 Touring as well. It came with 100 year old wheels with natural spokes. One of the most common comments I get is "Wow! Look at the wood spokes!" If they were painted, the fact that they were wood would not be as obvious.

Personally, I think a car that is otherwise all black needs something of a different color to set it off....the spokes and a few bits of bright metal do the job. The bottom line is, your car, your choice

I know you will be getting some post about originality and being black from the factory. My OP on this is; ignore them. If you and you alone like the way they look, natural, leave them that way. If at some future date, you or the next "cartaker" wants to go back to black, that would be up to you/them.

It's your car and you can keep the wheels as is or paint them black or any other color you choose.
If you plan to enter in car shows where someone gets best, most "original" then they should be black. If you use the car for a driver, and only attend shows where people just look at the cars but no prizes are offered, then leave it as it is. As I stated before, "It's your car".
Norm

Your T - your choice ! I have one natural & one painted - tough choice !

Colin,
First off, I'm glad to see you replaced 100 year old wheels. That is commendable.

All my cars have natural spokes. My 1911 was that way when I bought it, my 1915 and 1919 I left natural when I had them re-spoked. Although at first I liked the look, after a while I realized the light color shows the grease and grime. And they are not easy to clean. I like driving more than than cleaning, so currently they look kind of dirty.

Sometimes people can't believe that the spokes (and felloes) are wood, but when they are natural, there is no doubt.

On my 1911, I wish they had been painted.

Bottom line is your car, your choice.

: ^ )

Its your decision. I would not care what others think. Clear do look pretty. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I am closer to an "originalist" I like period correctness. Incorrect hardware bothers me way more than varnised spokes. Philips screws are the devils hardware.
That said, I had a set of wheels respoked. They sure were pretty, painted them black. Looking at the 2 pix "I" really like the painted wheels.
Gives a T a more serious look.

Depends on your preference, and the reaction you want from the public. Since your car is steel bodied, if they are painted, you won’t get the same reaction if they are natural. The current generation(s) have no clue how old, or how T’s are made. If they are painted, they will assume they are also steel.
Ours are natural, but we also have a natural wood bodied truck.
If you don’t paint them, use something like Minwax clear Urethane to seal them so they can be kept clean and not stain. I’d also suggest the oil based satin finish. It looks real good on hickory.
And if you don’t like it, well black covers everything. Going the other way is painful.
- JMO

Oldav8tor wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:53 am

I have a 1917 Touring as well. It came with 100 year old wheels with natural spokes. One of the most common comments I get is "Wow! Look at the wood spokes!" If they were painted, the fact that they were wood would not be as obvious.

Personally, I think a car that is otherwise all black needs something of a different color to set it off....the spokes and a few bits of bright metal do the job. The bottom line is, your car, your choice
model t 4sm.jpg

completely agree with that, thanks.
Beautiful car by the way

KWTownsend wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:05 am

Colin,
First off, I'm glad to see you replaced 100 year old wheels. That is commendable.

All my cars have natural spokes. My 1911 was that way when I bought it, my 1915 and 1919 I left natural when I had them re-spoked. Although at first I liked the look, after a while I realized the light color shows the grease and grime. And they are not easy to clean. I like driving more than than cleaning, so currently they look kind of dirty.

Sometimes people can't believe that the spokes (and felloes) are wood, but when they are natural, there is no doubt.

On my 1911, I wish they had been painted.

Bottom line is your car, your choice.

: ^ )

yes, thank you. It was an expensive, yet responsible decision that i had to make. Calimers did an awesome job. He knows his stuff. I do find myself cleaning them more now that they are lighter.

PDGx wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:31 am

Depends on your preference, and the reaction you want from the public. Since your car is steel bodied, if they are painted, you won’t get the same reaction if they are natural. The current generation(s) have no clue how old, or how T’s are made. If they are painted, they will assume they are also steel.
Ours are natural, but we also have a natural wood bodied truck.
If you don’t paint them, use something like Minwax clear Urethane to seal them so they can be kept clean and not stain. I’d also suggest the oil based satin finish. It looks real good on hickory.
And if you don’t like it, well black covers everything. Going the other way is painful.
- JMO

that was my theory exactly. I applied a "natural" stain and then a urethane. Black covers everything LOL

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:13 am

Its your decision. I would not care what others think. Clear do look pretty. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I am closer to an "originalist" I like period correctness. Incorrect hardware bothers me way more than varnised spokes. Philips screws are the devils hardware.
That said, I had a set of wheels respoked. They sure were pretty, painted them black. Looking at the 2 pix "I" really like the painted wheels.
Gives a T a more serious look.

I do too. Thats the main reason for posting. I want them back to black because growing up i remember them black. Just cant go back on the decision.

RajoRacer wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:03 am

Your T - your choice ! I have one natural & one painted - tough choice !

Both beautiful. If I had the silver rims, i would have gone black on day 1. The contrast looks good

Be assured your among friends when asking about what color your wheels should be!
I have 3 T’s. A 1919 Runabout, 24 Coupe, and a 21 Touring. They have natural varnished wheels. Like many others I think it makes a T look pretty good. Especially when they are all black.

I think you maybe answered your own question? Once painted the option is gone for the most part? Your car, your choice, depends on where you want to be.

My first was 21" balloon wheels that were painted yellow when I got it! No question there, stripped them with glass chards, had them dipped, had them soaked in neutralizer followed by water, final tough had them baked out.., decided to keep natural although they were a brownish hickory once the yellow come off. Did them in a Waterlox tung-oil finish now over 40 years ago, still just wipe them down with a wet rag and they look good as new...they are still totally tight with no poke from the acid bath.

My second was a '15 with clinchers. Had crappy wheel paint, Redid the wheels in Black...happy with that too...

My third was bright natural balloon 21" and happy with them...

My last was the Hack that actually looked good in old unfinished natural spokes, with Cherry Red fellows and hubs....but I redid them last year...went black paint complete again...happy with that also...

Point in all that? Your own opinion will probably waver forever...lol...pick one that makes the most sense now, do it right, you'll be happy with the answer. Natural does allow you a do over someday that is a simple change when you tire of the look...other direction is still possible just a little tougher. (By then maybe you will be on #2 or #3....lol)

I like the natural look on most Ts. You might consider "wrapping" the spokes, which would be reversible, I think. (Or get 2 sets of wheels... maybe three... in case you get to feeling "wirey")

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:21 pm

I like the natural look on most Ts. You might consider "wrapping" the spokes, which would be reversible, I think. (Or get 2 sets of wheels... maybe three... in case you get to feeling "wirey")

I would love to have even a second set, nevermind 3 total lol. All if money wasnt a factor. I work on school buses, im not a millionaire

I was waiting for the God and Henry remark. If Henry had a decent varnish back in the day, they might would have been that way. Who knows? Back then varnish lasted a season, if that. Now, a good spar urethane can go 20 years or more before a touch up. 999 people out of a 1000 could care less, and plenty more wouldn’t know what’s “correct” if you are going to take a poll. A beautiful, DRIVEN 1915 runabout just won best T at the Father’s Day car show at Stan Hewitt hall. Maroon painted spokes. It’s gorgeous and driven a lot

I'll join those who say "your car, your choice." My '27 came with wheels that had been black and had had a bad job of stripping the black. I (so far) have re-stripped two of them and "painted" them with Minwax Spar Urethane. I love the look and someday will do the other two, but right now I don't have a place to work for the 40 hours per wheel that it took.

I forgot to mention that natural wheels were an option in '26 and '27, so although my car didn't come with natural wheels, it is not incorrect.

No 30X3 or 30X3 1/2 wheel ever came from the factory with a natural finish.

Original Smith wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:37 pm

No 30X3 or 30X3 1/2 wheel ever came from the factory with a natural finish.

I know that. It was always black. I just had the chance at seeing what it would be like "unpainted". I will probably end up blacking them out in a year or so

When I had my '23 Runabout wheels respoked a few years ago I was tempted to leave them natural wood as they looked very sharp. My overall goal with the car was to make it as "typical" of its time as possible so I painted them black and have never regretted that decision.

I do have a car with natural wheels, a 1929 Hudson Town Sedan. The wood is certainly pretty but the next time that car gets painted the wheels will be painted upper body color to be more "typical" of the era just like the T.

Yes, its your choice but your goal may direct that choice.

Paul

I'm a period guy. I like what some would call "time traveling", experiencing the era of the car as much as possible. The comments you've received tells you, It's a modern trend. For the last 50 to 60 years varnished spokes have been the trend, and that' fine if that's you're bag, but step back and look at original photo's and you'll get a different picture. Yes, it's you're car, do what pleases you but for me and a few others of us I love the era and what was done and popular during that era. Todays trends are a wash.

Ed aka #4

Well seems to me 'trends' were done in the 'teens for varnished spokes on wood wheels


Ford didn't varnish until the Improved Car, but aftermarket wood wheels in the teens and twenties were offered in varnish. This gal likes 'em [/b

Or like the article stated, paint 'em up!

So the old saying says ‘What Comes Around Goes Around’ was around almost a 100 years ago as far a natural wheels are concerned. Looks like it’s still around! Dang those customizers!

I varnished one set of wheels after re-spoking and I regretted it every time I looked at the car... but they looked so dang *good* varnished. No matter how good they looked, I hated them. I'll never fall into that trap again. I've painted every set of wheels since then and have not regretted it once.

Advice I got 40+ years ago from someone who is well respected on this forum was: "Show me a period photo of... [whatever the topic of discussion is]".

My grandfather stripped the paint off of the wheels on my late ‘13 Touring back in the ‘50’s. When I had the wheels rebuilt with new wood I decided to use marine varnish instead of painting them black.

I’m glad I made the decision. Whenever I take the car out people absolutely lose their minds when they realize the wheels are made of wood. I once had someone ask if they were made of metal and painted to look like wood.

Like Steve J, I often joke that I like my wheels black like God and Henry intended.
I also like my cars to look like they were pulled out from an original era photograph! And the fact is, that very few era photographs show cars of any kind before about 1926 with natural finish on the wood parts of the wheels.
Was it done? Yes. SOME manufacturers offered natural finish as an option almost from the beginning. However until the late 1920s, it was a rarely taken option.

However, since I have studied and read the history and advertisements from back in the days? I also KNOW that many dealers offered to strip the wheels and refinish them in a natural look. Many (MANY) years ago, I got to talk with an elderly fellow that as a kid, along with other local kids, worked for a local dealer scraping paint off of wheels to be refinished! So, I know it was done. And I have seen advertisements for after-market wheels back in the 1910 and 1920s offering natural finish as an option. So whether I prefer them that way or not? Someone wants them? I tell them "your car" and "here is the argument that it was done way back when". No matter how rarely that was.

Here in Winnipeg ,and this came from the mechanic that worked on my 12 when it was new . If you bought a new car and wanted natural wheels he would take your painted wheels off and put a new set on which came with no finish and he would apply a vanish of so sort and bam you had natural wood wheels. This question has been asked for 100 years so do as you please. I changed the hood shelves to natural when we broke the crank in 2013 just to change it up a bit. after 55 years dad and I redid the varnish This was his last project on the car 2015 He pasted a year later.

Natural wood spokes are my first choice. However, I purchased my '23 touring already restored and the spokes had been painted black. As previously pointed out, there is no going back. I'd like to offer a suggestion; My wheels have a treatment not often seen which enhances the looks of the wheels tremendously. The detachable rims are painted (powder coated?) an off white or an ivory color rather than the usual silver. It's a small thing but it really makes the black spoke look "pop" and gets lots of attention.

My wife & I stripped (scraped with plate glass pieces & leather gloves actually) a black painted set of 21" 's near 30 years ago, sanded smooth & marine spar varnish finish - they turned out just gorgeous with some hints of the black paint as "character marks" - they went away with my '25 Runabout I sold a number of years ago.

I was wondering what the treatment is you mention John?

John Dow wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:21 am

My wheels have a treatment not often seen which enhances the looks of the wheels tremendously.

I believe he was referring the the off white color of the rims causing the effect - seems a "comma" would have continued out the sentence.

By Jove, I think I've got it! Thanks Steve.

RajoRacer wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:13 pm

I believe he was referring the the off white color of the rims causing the effect - seems a "comma" would have continued out the sentence.

No worries - I'm usually not one to correct anyone's grammar !

Wayne Sheldon wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:43 pm

Like Steve J, I often joke that I like my wheels black like God and Henry intended.
I also like my cars to look like they were pulled out from an original era photograph! And the fact is, that very few era photographs show cars of any kind before about 1926 with natural finish on the wood parts of the wheels.
Was it done? Yes. SOME manufacturers offered natural finish as an option almost from the beginning. However until the late 1920s, it was a rarely taken option.

However, since I have studied and read the history and advertisements from back in the days? I also KNOW that many dealers offered to strip the wheels and refinish them in a natural look. Many (MANY) years ago, I got to talk with an elderly fellow that as a kid, along with other local kids, worked for a local dealer scraping paint off of wheels to be refinished! So, I know it was done. And I have seen advertisements for after-market wheels back in the 1910 and 1920s offering natural finish as an option. So whether I prefer them that way or not? Someone wants them? I tell them "your car" and "here is the argument that it was done way back when". No matter how rarely that was.

First line - If god intended that wooden spoked wheels should have been black, tree wood would have been black. My wheels are natural (sort of). God is on my side. As to Henry, maybe not.

Amen brother! And trees would be no larger in diameter than a spoke!

Red spokes and white tires look good on a black car. or same color as the body for the spokes and wire wheels. which is what My 26 touring has. shown in post photo.

I would never presume to tell you what to do, but I WILL tell you this:

I have had a Model T since 1950's. There have been two. Both were "barn finds" and came to me with natural-wood colored spokes. I don't "show" them, so I don't care what the purists think. But - and this is my message to you -

When passers-by stop to admire the car, or show it to their companion or child, laced with the normal mis-information, it is almost a 100% certainty that they will remark on the beautiful wheels, with emphasis on the wooden spokes. I've been on several tours and had lots of those kinds of remarks, usually as I'm parked outside the ice cream shop. In those instances, there are most likely Model T's with black spokes either next to me, or nearby, and I can't recall a single time anyone remarked on how attractive a black-spoke wheel looks.

Do with it what you will!

I do not consider myself a purist but do like old timey things. When I first got my T neighbors came over to look and loved the car. The spokes were black and everyone was surprised to hear they were wood. Personally I didn’t care for the painted spokes and old nickel plated caps. After stripping the paint, clear coat, a little red paint with brass caps neighbors now comment on how much better the car looks and that you can see the spokes are wood. If I had an early car with factory color, other than black, and matching wheels I might be inclined to leave them that way.

You obviously know what both look like. Make your choice and go with it. Either is fine. no "splainin" necessary.

I plan to get some wheels from Stutzman come tax time and those will stay natural with a varnish.