MTFCA Forum

After taking an inordinate amount of time to overcome my fear of all things mechanical, and with the help of a good friend, I was able to rebuild the rear and driveshaft on my '24 Ford.
Now, feeling invincible and with a great deal of false confidence, I am ready to tackle the changing of the transmission bands.
I have the Ford Service Manual and the tool that holds and compresses the bands and want to ask those with much more experience for some opinions and tips.
I have a set of new Kevlar bands with removable ears, so I will not need to re-line the old ones.
Do I soak Kevlar bands in oil before installing?
I will definitely stuff the open areas with rags so I don't join the MTFFC (Model T Ford Fishing Club).
Is the whole process really as easy as it looks here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky9xVyyKWaE

Gene

Some people drain the old oil from the engine and install the bands dry. Then pour 4 quarts of oil directly over the bands so as to soak them. While this method is acceptable, it is better to let the bands soak in oil overnight and then install them in the tranny. I find that holding the individual bands together with plastic wire ties works better than the tool that compresses the bands. After the pedals are put in place and the nuts installed, the wire ties can be cut with diagonal cutters. Hope this helps. John

Regarding the video: The bendix must be removed before the starter so as to not damage the field coil, Not for ease. The new bands must be re-shaped to fit accurately around the drums. Especially critical to kevlar linings. Once the band material is riveted to the band, soak them, As yours are now.
Removing the hogs head, yes, mandatory with kevlar.

Using Kevlar eh?
So you are a well seasoned T operator, know how to perfectly adjust those bands, Have familiarized yourself with the dangers running kevlar?
Have you seen, just todays, posts of 2 blown low drums?
I may sound negative to kevlars, (many are) I am not, I run them in all my T's. Love them. But you must know the possible dangers related to their use.
They are not forgiving like cotton linings.

If I am reading the situation correctly, dont do kevlar at this time. Bonus: Cotton & scandia can be installed thru the inspection cover, making the job much faster & easier.

some good stuff and some really bad stuff in the video

starting bands rivets in the center and working out, plus springing the bands open as big as the drum is a certain way of breaking a drum if kevlar is used.

Follow the book and start the rivets at each end and see how to deal with the excess in the center. Reshape the bands ROUND so that a simple 1/2" squeeze on the ends would cinch the band on the ENTIRE circumference of the drum and a simple 1/2" relaxation removes all pressure points from the drum.

The overhang of band material at the ends of the bands is good...you never want the metal end of the band to ever possibly rub the drum.

I am a fan of properly clinching the rivets (points curled and pointed down into the weave and not just bashed flat) but enough people get away with this to make it a preference or good practice rather than a "danger Will Robinson!" item.

If you do use that retaining tool, be sure to remove it after the springs/washers are in place but BEFORE the hog's head is bolted down. There is massive interference between the pedal boss' and the band. At best, you will all but permanently trap the tool or at worst crack something. It's one of those things that looks terribly clever in the catalog but never fails to disappoint in real life.

hi, I suggest using a white sheet ripped to size, it is easy to see if you dropped something and you do not have to count the rags and wonder if you are one rag short, Many times a rag has fell in unnoticed, not to me but others. It does not work well if a rag is in there, A lot of us guys are getting older and do not see as well or remember how to count. Thanks , Bob.

I did not realize the hogshead has to come off to install kevlar bands. Are they thicker than cotton or wood? I had somehow formed the impression that only the bands with non-demountable ears needed to have the hogshead off to change bands.

Paul

Hudson29 wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:42 pm

I did not realize the hogshead has to come off to install kevlar bands. Are they thicker than cotton or wood? I had somehow formed the impression that only the bands with non-demountable ears needed to have the hogshead off to change bands.

Paul

If the hogs head is not removed, band distortion thru inspection cover will most certainly bend the bands out of round. Hence constant band friction leading to a cracked drum. With cotton/scandia the extra friction still is in effect, but the band material will wear before damaging drums.
Wood bans are not flexible enough to install thru the cover without breaking. Gotta pull the hogs head.

I think I would start out with cotton bands to begin with. They are more forgiving than Kevlar. Going by the first post in this thread that’s the best way to go for your first band experience.
While working on Model T’s it’s a reminder of 100 year old technology and what goes along with it.

Take your time doing the job ESPECIALLY when reinstalling them.
Stuff all the rags in the transmission you can and go slow and watch what your doing. Don’t take anything for granted. Have fun !

As a fan of cotton band linings, I admire those encouraging their use. But, unfortunately they seem to be on the list of parts no longer being reproduced.

Thank you to everyone who replied to my post.
I greatly appreciate all of the sage advice.
I will put the set of three Kevlar bands with removable ears away for another day when I have much more experience as a driver and order a set of cotton bands for now.

Thanks again!
Gene

If the vendors don’t currently have them in stock put a add in the classifieds that you are looking for some. Make sure you get a set that’s at least 23 3/8” or longer. There was a time when the reproduction cotton bands were made to short.
Hope this helps.

additionally, do not install any NOS band which smells sour or mildewed. If they come from CA, AZ, CO or similar, they're possibly OK. If they come from FL, SC, etc., beware...high humidity, 80 years of hot storage, and mildew are not a combination for long-lived cotton bands.

Obviously you're not going to hurt anything by soaking you're bands before installing, but it really isn't necessary.

The moment you start the engine the bands get deluged with a massive and constant oil bath. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXimnKoDPSI

And don't get scared off of Kevlar bands.

The way that kevlar can damage your drums (and I'm not totally convinced all these cracked drums are due to kevlar bands) is because the kevlar can withstand far more friction and heat than other band material. Say, for example, instead of mashing the clutch to the floor in low gear you only push it enough to cause the car to start moving forward; the band is only dragging the drum, not holding it. This creates friction, which creates heat. If you do this with other band material they will fall apart, shred, or otherwise fail long before (generally speaking) the kind of heat and wear is generated that can damage your drums.

Kevlar can handle that heat and friction, for the most part, without failing. As a result, with Kevlar bands it's POSSIBLE to generate enough heat to damage the drums. Just practice good pedal discipline (MASH IT!) and keep an eye on things.

We just feed them to the goats. No bodies to dispose of that way.

Count the number of rags you put in and take put, make sure they are the same number!!

Yes Austin,
I recently took a engine apart that had run some time with a red shop rag in it! I'm still finding peices of the rag everywhere. Very lucky it did not
plug the oil funnel. First clue was when I wanted to drain & change the oil before starting it & the oil would not come out of the pan.
Craig.

Good thing you caught it.
A fellow club member did a clean up on an engine & swap. He left one rag in after putting bands back in.
First 50 miles he knocked out a rod. Yep, that wayward rag landed in his internal funnel plugging it quite efficiently.
& No accessory external oil line.