MTFCA Forum

My 1914 have no starter, so it is turning the crank when you want to go.
9 out of 10 it starts at first or second pull (not counting a choked pull when cold), but that 10th time it just requires (to) many pulls and often when there are spectators It's often when warm but have cooled a little. there is normally no life, not just the slightest "couf" and then out of the blue it starts right up.
Buzzer coils "talks" as they should at each pull.
It is most likely a carburator issue - as I may not yet have learned when I need to choke a little or adjust the mixture less lean but I am out of guidelines when to apply.
Any help is appriciated.

There is that elusive point where it has sat long enough to loose enough fuel charge to require a little choke. Note the pattern & give 1/4 choke pull.
My 14, coincidentally acts the same way. & yes it may be stage fright.

If the engine has already been run shortly before you crank it, you could have either too rich or too lean mixture. Sometimes it will start right up when you turn on the key, called a "free" start. Other times it will start with one pull of the crank without choking. Other times you might need one pull with the choke. So it depends on several things including how hot the weather is or whether you are using a heat pipe on the carburetor. Also depends on how high is the float level or the mixture adjustment. Anyway, if it starts right up 9 out of 10 times, you are averaging 90 percent. That's pretty good. The audience will be amused anyway, as most have never seen a car being crank started.
Norm

9 out of 10 times, 1 or 2 pulls and it starts sounds above average to me.

PS. I NEVER richen the carb to start. If the float is set @ the exact correct spot, one need not touch the adjustment unless changing altitude by a bunch. Meaning, carb needle likes the same position for idle & hi-speed running.
Sitting a long time(initial start): 2 1/4 choke pulls, on, 1 1/4 pull to start. When sitting during a run: on,1/4 pull. If no joy(the 10th start!), off, 1/4 choke pull, on, 1/4 pull.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:24 pm

PS. I NEVER richen the carb to start. If the float is set @ the exact correct spot, one need not touch the adjustment unless changing altitude by a bunch. Meaning, carb needle likes the same position for idle & hi-speed running.
Sitting a long time(initial start): 2 1/4 choke pulls, on, 1 1/4 pull to start. When sitting during a run: on,1/4 pull. If no joy(the 10th start!), off, 1/4 choke pull, on, 1/4 pull.

That depends on the car/carburetor etc. Not all cars are the same, even if two had the same brand of carb. Heck, sometimes T's just want to be contrary.

This is the kind of problem I'd like to have.

paddy1998 wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:16 pm

This is the kind of problem I'd like to have.

Amen.
However, as an old man, hand cranking, the "problem" gets worse over time. (Speaking for myself)

In 25 years of work with my 1912 Chocolate van it became less amenable to hand cranking over the years, to the stage it was a two man job in the end, me on the crank handle and a second person on the advance/retard lever. The problem was solved when I fitted the rebuilt Holley H carburetor Stan Howe did for me. It is now back to one/two pull starts. I could not believe the wear in the throttle and choke plate shafts on the carb I removed.

Allan from down under.

Model T engine vibration contributes to throttle shaft and linkage wear. Dirt hastens wear. A carburetor with worn shafts or loose throttle/choke plates will behave erratically. Worn linkage or a linkage that is too loose to hold a setting will cause problems, too. Wear and slack in spark control linkage can cause issues. Air leakage anywhere in the intake tract, including carburetor, intake manifold and joints, and valve guides, will contribute to erratic performance and starting issues. Manifold to block leaks may be affected by engine temperature.

Model Ts have a "spectator sensor" that kicks in whenever anyone is watching you try to start it. If you have just commented to the effect that the car is very reliable and starts on the slightest twist of the crank, the sensor's sensitivity increases exponentially and will only shut down after everyone has drifted away snickering.

Considering that a great many many Model Ts come from an isolated rural past, it's no wonder that many of them are a bit awkward in a crowd, even a small crowd...

Same problem with a 1912. First or second pull every time, UNLESS it tries to give a free start and fails. Somehow that chuff seems to disrupt everything. Pulling the choke only makes it worse, just have to pull and pull, and pull, until eventually the correct mixture gets back into the cylinders. No idea why any of the above happens, it just is what it is.

For my '13, hot weather is the most difficult as to how to reckon with a "cold" start. No choke at all to re-start once she's warmed up. It's all done by braille ! I realize this is no help at all for those who are frustrated. Misery loves company, I'm pretty sure every single T owner throughout the past 111 years has been there !

About 1,237 things can affect exactly what any particular Model T engine needs to re-start easily with little or no cranking. Some of these things are external to the vehicle, such as a breeze or lack of any, humidity, elevation, time spent sitting, engine temperature, ambient temperature, the characteristics of the fuel, and more.

Re: "Somehow that chuff seems to disrupt everything." /// I've had old tractors with updraft carburetors that would flood if the engine rocked back off compression when attempting to start, as evidenced by gasoline dripping from the carburetor following the "chuff". The best procedure in those cases was to open the throttle and crank the engine to clear the excess fuel. (Or just wait a while).

Loftfield wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:30 pm

Same problem with a 1912. First or second pull every time, UNLESS it tries to give a free start and fails. Somehow that chuff seems to disrupt everything. Pulling the choke only makes it worse, just have to pull and pull, and pull, until eventually the correct mixture gets back into the cylinders. No idea why any of the above happens, it just is what it is.

That is actually also what I often observe. So that is part of the picture. And I can't explain why that should be an issue, but it seems to be.

Funny that you should mention this topic. I finished restoring our 15 runabout last year and it has a Holly G carb. Normally I never prime it if I have driven it in the last few days in the warmer months. If longer, I prime it once on a 1/4 turn crank. It will normally start within a couple of 1/4 turns on mag only. That's what I did this morning when I drove it to church. After church, no priming and one turn and it started right up.

When I got home I turned it off in the driveway and moments later tried starting it back up and it would not even sputter on mag or battery. I opened the throttle wide open and turned it four 1/4 turns to clear the cylinders. It then started briefly, so I repeated my full throttle cranking exercise. It then started and ran just fine. The OP did not mention what carb he has, I have read that Holley G carbs or easy to flood. This is the second time since I finished restoring it that I couldn't start it due to flooding. The first time I made the mistake of priming it a couple of times prior to starting it cold on a warm day.

The float level is probably related to starting procedure in many cases. A low float level might make choking more than ordinarily necessary and a high float level might do the opposite.

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:33 pm

The float level is probably related to starting procedure in many cases. A low float level might make choking more than ordinarily necessary and a high float level might do the opposite.

When the fuel level is correct, the mixture needle is set correctly for idle & hi speed. No need to readjust for either.
Thats not necessarily by the given float dimension. That is a starting point.

I did not mention what carburator I have as I could not remember exactly how the name was spelled
It's a Touquet which was an aftermarket sold in the days (or maybe later). Apart from the occasional starting issue, the carburator seems to work very well, so I assume the float level is OK.

Edit: Jay from California had a NOS one for sale in parts classifieds last year. There was a picture of easy starting instructions. Maybe I should read that closely.....

The Toquet sounds like it's meant to be a gas-saver.

Something to think about, and others have eluded to it on this post. Hand crank starting any antique vehicle, tractor, "one-lunger"engine or truck and successfully backing a trailer. The ability to have success in any of those endeavors is DIRECTLY porportional to the number of witnesses/spectators.