Clutch then no clutch
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
-
Topic author - Posts: 23
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:37 am
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Eaton
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Touring, 1923 Fordor, 1923 Coupe, 1923 Express, 1914 Roadster, 1912 half size Roadster
- Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
- MTFCI Number: 23563
Clutch then no clutch
Help! Yesterday while driving my grand children the clutch made a noise and began to slip somewhat until it would no longer grab at all. I believe the spring may have failed. Looking for the best way to determine if this is so and how to best repair this. [image][image]
[/image][/image]My wife is hoping repairs can be done without removing engine as she has helped with two engine swaps this month. Thanks, John-
- Posts: 1565
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:46 am
- First Name: Dennis
- Last Name: Seth
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1922 Coupe 1927 Touring
- Location: Jefferson Ohio
-
Topic author - Posts: 23
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:37 am
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Eaton
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Touring, 1923 Fordor, 1923 Coupe, 1923 Express, 1914 Roadster, 1912 half size Roadster
- Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
- MTFCI Number: 23563
Re: Clutch then no clutch
Clutch fingers do not seem to exert any pressure.
-
- Posts: 248
- Joined: Thu May 23, 2019 12:21 pm
- First Name: Joe
- Last Name: Reid
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1919 Coupe, 1920 Roadster, 1923 Touring, 1924 Roadster, 1913 Racer
- Location: Almond WI
- MTFCA Number: 52067
- MTFCI Number: 22088
- Board Member Since: 2007
Re: Clutch then no clutch
Is your spring broken. What happens when you push the brake lever all the way forward. You do not have to pull the engine to change a clutch spring but it is a chore. You have to pull the drive shaft and take out the 4 th main. Do you have broken clutch fingers?
-
- Posts: 4094
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:39 pm
- First Name: Norman
- Last Name: Kling
- Location: Alpine California
Re: Clutch then no clutch
If the low and reverse work, but high does not work, then your problem is the clutch. One problem which sometimes happens is the parking brake rods are adjusted too long and when you shift into low or neutral the brake rods will push the lever back enough to keep it in neutral. To check for this, take out the clevis pins from the brake rods, then push the lever all the way forward and with the brake rods pushed all the way back, the pins should slip right in without having to force them.
Norm
Norm
-
Topic author - Posts: 23
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:37 am
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Eaton
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Touring, 1923 Fordor, 1923 Coupe, 1923 Express, 1914 Roadster, 1912 half size Roadster
- Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
- MTFCI Number: 23563
Re: Clutch then no clutch
Hi Norman. Thanks. Everything was working perfectly and then a funny noise and high gear slowly disappeared. I will ck the linkage first.
Hi Joe. Thanks. I think you may be correct. Is there anywhere I can look up info on changing the spring while still in car. I have always done the spring on the workbench.
Hi Joe. Thanks. I think you may be correct. Is there anywhere I can look up info on changing the spring while still in car. I have always done the spring on the workbench.
-
- Posts: 6496
- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
- First Name: Steve
- Last Name: Jelf
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
- Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
- MTFCA Number: 16175
- MTFCI Number: 14758
- Board Member Since: 2007
- Contact:
Re: Clutch then no clutch
I've never replaced a clutch spring in the car, but I know a very experienced Model T guy who says he has, and that he'll pull the engine next time. The service manual does tell you how to do it in the car, if you want to try it.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/59 ... 1481134752
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/59 ... 1481134752
Last edited by Steve Jelf on Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
-
- Posts: 6435
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
- First Name: Scott
- Last Name: Conger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
- Location: Clark, WY
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Clutch then no clutch
See chapter XIV, page 139 of the Ford Model T service manual, for the in-car procedure for changing the high clutch spring
You'll never do it twice
You'll never do it twice
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
- Posts: 6443
- Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
- First Name: Pat
- Last Name: McNallen
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
- Location: Graham, Texas
- MTFCA Number: 51486
- Board Member Since: 2021
Re: Clutch then no clutch
If the clutch "faded" rather than suddenly failing, it may be that a clutch finger adjuster, or all of them, worked loose, and got free of the safety wire and backed off. I'd think if the spring had broken, it would cause a sudden and complete failure of the clutch.
-
- Posts: 3869
- Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
- First Name: john
- Last Name: karvaly
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
- Location: orange, ca
- MTFCA Number: 14383
- Board Member Since: 2020
Re: Clutch then no clutch
A broken spring will be easy to see. Take a look. Check low pedal clutch linkage. I did have some similal weird clutch symptoms. Turned out to be a defective batch of clutch shoes would spilt & come apart. Found pieces in the oil. 1/4' x 1" sheet metal.TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:16 pmIf the clutch "faded" rather than suddenly failing, it may be that a clutch finger adjuster, or all of them, worked loose, and got free of the safety wire and backed off. I'd think if the spring had broken, it would cause a sudden and complete failure of the clutch.
-
- Posts: 5256
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
- First Name: Allan
- Last Name: Bennett
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
- Location: Gawler, Australia
Re: Clutch then no clutch
Scott, it sounds like replacing the spring in-car is done twice! The first and the last time!!!!
Allan from down under.
Allan from down under.
-
- Posts: 3326
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
- First Name: Dan
- Last Name: Treace
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
- Location: North Central FL
- MTFCA Number: 4838
- MTFCI Number: 115
- Board Member Since: 2000
- Contact:
Re: Clutch then no clutch
And when you read the footnote to the Ford Service paragraph on in car clutch spring change, it states 2 persons are needed! Bet one of the two needs to have done it before
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford
-
Topic author - Posts: 23
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:37 am
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Eaton
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Touring, 1923 Fordor, 1923 Coupe, 1923 Express, 1914 Roadster, 1912 half size Roadster
- Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
- MTFCI Number: 23563
Re: Clutch then no clutch
Good morning. I want to thank everyone who helped. I appreciate all the helpful ideas. I ended up lucky as it appears there were no cotter pins in the finger adjusters and they had not backed out ALL the way yet. As I said we did several rebuilds and swaps lately and I guess I must have left the cotter pins out of this one. As time goes by it is getting harder and harder to get quality workmanship. Thanks all! John
-
Topic author - Posts: 23
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:37 am
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Eaton
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Touring, 1923 Fordor, 1923 Coupe, 1923 Express, 1914 Roadster, 1912 half size Roadster
- Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
- MTFCI Number: 23563
Re: Clutch then no clutch
Good morning. I want to thank everyone who helped. I appreciate all the helpful ideas. I ended up lucky as it appears there were no cotter pins in the finger adjusters and they had not backed out ALL the way yet. As I said we did several rebuilds and swaps lately and I guess I must have left the cotter pins out of this one. As time goes by it is getting harder and harder to get quality workmanship. Thanks all! John
-
- Posts: 852
- Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:57 pm
- First Name: Art
- Last Name: Mirtes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 Touring
- Location: Huron, Ohio
- MTFCA Number: 32489
- MTFCI Number: 24068
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Clutch then no clutch
I am glad you found the problem in time. Have you or anyone you know toured cape Bretton in a Model t. My wife and I drove it in a modern car about 10 years ago. I would love to do in a Model t. Probably need a ruxtell.
Art Mirtes
Art Mirtes
-
Topic author - Posts: 23
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:37 am
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Eaton
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Touring, 1923 Fordor, 1923 Coupe, 1923 Express, 1914 Roadster, 1912 half size Roadster
- Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
- MTFCI Number: 23563
Re: Clutch then no clutch
I have never done that in a T but Cape Breton would be beautiful You would definitely need at least Ruxtell and disk brakes
-
- Posts: 1056
- Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:20 pm
- First Name: Joe
- Last Name: Bell
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24 Fordor
- Location: Tiffin Ohio
- MTFCI Number: 24066
Re: Clutch then no clutch
Check to see how far into the driven plate the three pins are? I replaced six sets of the turbo 400, jack rabbit , watts clutches this past year, I have never seen the steel ones destroyed. My guess is there is an after market set of disc in there causing these issues!
-
- Posts: 3869
- Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
- First Name: john
- Last Name: karvaly
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
- Location: orange, ca
- MTFCA Number: 14383
- Board Member Since: 2020
Re: Clutch then no clutch
What the heck are you doing. I have never even wore a set. (Heavy duty 400's.) 10k miles or so. I run them in all 4 of my T's. Last refresh of motor, showed no wear, re-used old set. Did you follow the instructions? using a weak spring? Miss adjusted linkage? This is not normal.Joe Bell wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:56 amCheck to see how far into the driven plate the three pins are? I replaced six sets of the turbo 400, jack rabbit , watts clutches this past year, I have never seen the steel ones destroyed. My guess is there is an after market set of disc in there causing these issues!
-
- Posts: 1302
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:42 pm
- First Name: Frank
- Last Name: van Ekeren
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1916 touring, 1916 pick-up, 1924 coupe, 1926 touring, 1927 touring
- Location: Rosedale Vic Australia
Re: Clutch then no clutch
Joe, you list all of the modern clutch packs as failures, that would only endorse that those T owners/drivers need to be educated on how to drive a T correctly.
-
- Posts: 3419
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:53 am
- First Name: Tim
- Last Name: Wrenn
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13 Touring, '26 "Overlap" Fordor
- Location: Ohio
- MTFCA Number: 30701
- MTFCI Number: 24033
- Board Member Since: 2019
Re: Clutch then no clutch
I don't think he meant that in ONE car Speedy. Joe is a very capable, professional engine rebuilder and usually has close to a dozen engines in queue at any given time awaiting rebuilding. He's seen tons of these clutch problems, I think that's what he meant, six separate cases! Just to clarify on Joe's behalf.speedytinc wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:16 amWhat the heck are you doing. I have never even wore a set. (Heavy duty 400's.) 10k miles or so. I run them in all 4 of my T's. Last refresh of motor, showed no wear, re-used old set. Did you follow the instructions? using a weak spring? Miss adjusted linkage? This is not normal.Joe Bell wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:56 amCheck to see how far into the driven plate the three pins are? I replaced six sets of the turbo 400, jack rabbit , watts clutches this past year, I have never seen the steel ones destroyed. My guess is there is an after market set of disc in there causing these issues!
Quite honestly, my '11 Torpedo has a near worn out set of Jack Rabbits that came with the car when I bought it last Feb. My engine will be in his shop "waiting in line" come this October when the season ends. Back to stock clutch pack for me!
-
- Posts: 1056
- Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:20 pm
- First Name: Joe
- Last Name: Bell
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24 Fordor
- Location: Tiffin Ohio
- MTFCI Number: 24066
Re: Clutch then no clutch
As Tim said these are all different engines and people that have owned them, do not know why and do not care how, I have been the person that had to replace them !
-
- Posts: 4357
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
- First Name: Steve
- Last Name: Tomaso
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1919 Centerdoor, 1924 TT C-Cab Express, 1925 Racer
- Location: Longbranch, WA
- MTFCA Number: 14972
- MTFCI Number: 15411
- Board Member Since: 2001
Re: Clutch then no clutch
It seems as though Mr. Karvaly is our most recent self proclaimed expert - no worries Joe !
-
- Posts: 3869
- Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
- First Name: john
- Last Name: karvaly
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
- Location: orange, ca
- MTFCA Number: 14383
- Board Member Since: 2020
-
- Posts: 3869
- Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
- First Name: john
- Last Name: karvaly
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
- Location: orange, ca
- MTFCA Number: 14383
- Board Member Since: 2020
-
- Posts: 3869
- Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
- First Name: john
- Last Name: karvaly
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
- Location: orange, ca
- MTFCA Number: 14383
- Board Member Since: 2020
Re: Clutch then no clutch
Post disappeared. Trying again.
Then you are in the best position to have noticed why. Was there a common issue/problem? Notched drum, weak clutch spring? You rebuild many more engines than I do, from what I gather.
I have found a worn out set in a customers newly purchased T. After replacing the 400 clutch & setting it up right, he has had no issues.
Maybe they are like Kevlar bands. Unforgiving, but a wonderful improvement when well executed. A matter of opinion. Some orientalists will never agree on principle. What ever makes you happy.