MTFCA Forum

I have most of an NORS Dayton Manufacturing Company starter/generator for a pre 1919
Model T Ford engine. I have tested it to determine that it acts like a starter should.
It has huge torque and weighs in around 50 pounds.
My wife wants it installed on her early brass fire truck so she doesn't have to get out to crank it.
We have figured out most of the brackets for the front mount.
I am unfortunately missing the installation instructions. When I purchased the unit a number of years ago the seller had the instruction sheets but after repeated attempts to get them from him he refused to mail them to me.
Does anyone have a similar setup or the installation instructions?
The starter and starter switch installation is fairly straight forward. The generator may not be.
I am not sure if it is a start on 12volt; charge on 6volt system or how exactly it works.It appears to take two 6volt batteries in the battery box.
If anyone has any information it would be greatly appreciated.

Forerunner to Delco... nice item.

I found some info about a similar vintage starter/generator for a Model T. https://www.ebay.com/itm/402073415543?m ... olid=10001
"Description states "Model T Ford Accessory Starter / Generator MT-4181. This mounts on the side of the engine and is chain driven from the front of the crankshaft. The pulley runs the cooling fan. I am missing some parts (front engine pulley). It is a 6 - 12 volt system. I think it starts on 12 then charges the two 6 volt batteries. Message with any questions Condition: Used, " Google search may work better with a model #

]Similar

Better add a leaf to your front spring....!

I have 1920 Auto Electrician's Guide with has 500 wiring diagrams including nine aftermarket Model T
starter/ generators setups but none for the Dayton. (Kemco, Disco, ABC, Liberty, Gray and Davis etc).
Most of the switching magic takes place in the starter switch box (switching from starter to gemerator
for what I can tell).
There are also a couple pieces that I cannot figure out yet. Maybe they are not from this setup.
Any help would be appreciated.
Harry

Looking at Austins' picture there is what appears to be a motor as part of the set-up. Do you have one? The drum you have looks like its just some gearing, are there any posts for electrical connections on it?
Just a guess on how it attaches

Frank,
Thank you for your interest and comments.
The big "drum" is actually the motor / generator.
There is no gearing on this unit; unlike most others.
There are two terminals on the bottom of the unit.
When hooked to a 12 volt battery it spins freely and with terrific torque.
You are pretty close on the hookup to the front crossmember.
That plate goes under the spring and the U bolts are replaced with regular long bolts.
The starter switch has three terminals. I am assuming the bottom two are starter terminals
as they engage a large copper cone conector. The side terminal appears to be ground.
There is a huge electromagnet and contact coils in the switch.
I am again assuming this is the charging circut.
The cables have me a bit confused as all five have a battery terminal on one end and a
"bolt" eye terminal on the other. The longest one reaches the battery box on the running board.
The shortest will ground to the frame. The other three are a bit of a mystery.
There is also a dimmer control for the headlights.
Harry

"The starter switch has three terminals. I am assuming the bottom two are starter terminals as they engage a large copper cone conector. The side terminal appears to be ground. There is a huge electromagnet and contact coils in the switch."
Thatsounds like it could be a starter solenoid or a cut-out, depends. They have an electromagnet as well. If the solenoid cut-out on a Model T would stick closed and the engine was shut off - the generator would run like a motor.
Here's my guess - lets say that the diagram accounts for the two of the three terminals and the two side terminals on your switch. That would be the starting circuit. Now there needs to be a charging circuit and since this is an auxiliary starter is it possible that the 3 connector on the switch is to battery ground.

I have a "Automobile Engineering" Manual published in 1918 that has a section on "Installing Special Starting & Lighting Systems for Ford Cars". The section has about 75 pages with great detail, wiring diagrams et. on installing Genemotor, Gray & Davis, Heinze-Springfield, Fisher, North East, Splitdorf and Westinghouse Systems. I haven't gone through them in great detail but some are 6 volt, some are 12 volt and at least one, the Splitdorf, appears to use a "split" 12 v battery, or 2 6 v batteries. As a result, there are 4 cables going to the batteries. Maybe your 5 cables are a variation of this. In the instructions it states that all cells are connected in series for starting giving current at 12 volts. For charging and lighting the cells are coupled in 2 units of three each so that 7 volt lamps are used. Maybe your unit is similar requiring the extra cables. There is no charging regulator on this system as the generator output is controlled by means of a reversed compound winding, or bucking coil. There is a cut-out which includes a fuse. I am not an electrical expert, but if you need further info from this manual, let me know and I will try tp help