MTFCA Forum

Yesterday, there was a post about a well known Forum Member, a Model T owner, and his wife who are in terribly ill health

It was NOT a post about:

weddings
children
grandchildren
model cars
Antique airplanes
Antique phonographs
clock collecting
anything associated with something other than Model Ts, all of which have been discussed and enjoyed by members over the years on the Forum, myself included

It was a post about concerns for someone's well being; a topic which is much discussed here on a very frequent basis. Derivatives of which often include news of hospitalizations, operations, illness, death, all related to T people and Forum Members is a constant topic found here.

A recent example is Stan Howe's passing where folks offered the following:
"My prayers and condolences to Stan's Family and his friends"
"Prayers to the family............"
"Sad news about Stan's passing. My prayers for his family"
"My prayers are with his family and friends"

No one complained about the posting of Stan's death, and no one was apparently offended by anyone offering prayers to anyone.

Now, contrast this with something you are not allowed to see...that is, a post about a guy named Eric and his wife who are very sick, and the poster asked for prayers. THE HORROR OF IT ALL!!!!! That request, simple and common as it was, was found to be "religious" and "off topic" by a talented guy, someone who I respect and most of you do, too. Why on earth this common topic was suddenly so offensive to him or anyone, I cannot fathom. So offensive was the post, that it was not moved to Off Topic as requested, but apparently, was simply deleted. Perhaps it devolved into a pi$$ing contest between posters over that position, I don't know. If it did, then there are other remedies short of removing the entire post. To reiterate: A post requesting prayers for a sick Model T owner and his wife was removed. Not revised. Not edited. Not censored. Removed.

I suspect that the T world and the world in general is never going to fully recover from the psychosis induced in the last year and for that I am truly saddened.

I just won't be asking anyone to pray for it to end.

Scott, I noticed its absence this morning as well. The Dutch have an expression that a friend of mine wishes we had in English. You can say of someone, "He has long toes" and a Dutch speaker knows what you mean, i.e. he is easily offended (his toes are easily stepped on). We live in a world nowadays where everyone's toes seem to be growing apace. <sigh>

A post about the health of a member who has Model T's is to me a post about Model T's. It is actually offensive to me for someone to ask me not to pray for an ill person!
Norm

I don't believe that I know Eric or his wife, but I wish them well.
I am familiar with many people in this hobby, and it's nice to know that others pass along information about their well-being.
Maybe there should be a " good and welfare " section added. That way we may be informed to happenings, that we might not be informed about. We all check up on friends, and timely and accurate info could be passed along.
Charlie

It is unfortunate the subject was removed when it was clearly posted in the improper place by our self-appointed goodwill ambassador - I merely replied that it was OT, period ! I consider myself a good friend of Erik's and Julie was in my thoughts !

I do not think it was OT. Nuff said.

I haven't been on much so missed it. I can only say it's getting ridiculous how this country is becoming so fricking PC in virtually every thing and turn in our life, and of course results in censure. Just chill out world!

Sending prayers to his family and to the offended individuals as well...

It doesn't take much to offend some people these days...

Just perhaps, we all that utilize this open forum re-read the rules of this forum - they are there for a reason.

Signing Off

I have been a member of this club for almost 50 years, starting as a teenager. I knew and toured with many of the founding members and I have never been more mad at things that go on at this web sight, in the name of correctness, over the past year. I too sent prayers to Stan's family at news of his passing. I sent prayers to Eric when his father passed and send prayers to him and his wife now.
My dad was a WW2 US Navy veteran of some of the worst navy battles in the Pacific and wasn't very religious, but would say everyone would pray and then pass the shells to keep the gun firing.
My rant is over now and maybe my club membership is over also.

I just reviewed the forum rules as linked to above.

To quote:Product availability, sales, special offers, purchase negotiations and orders are strictly prohibited on the discussion forum.

How does what was posted and then removed violate any of this?

Ladies and Gentlemen, AAAAND Here we ARE. This group has finally heard from a Daren. Karens and Darens believe their own views and feelings are the LAW. They care not about anybody or anything but themselves. It IS the beginning of the end. First there's one and then two, four, ten, and they WILL drive the rest of us out. It's a SAD thing to see and even worse to be a part of.

Back in the day, this kind of attitude got exactly what it deserved; an ass whoooping. Sometimes education is easy and sometimes it's hard. Most of us learned civility, compassion, and tolerance when we were young. It appears there are those who have not learned and maybe never will until it's only them carrying the forum and wondering why no one will sell them parts or help with THEIR problems. It's a shame the name of the "objector" is being withheld as it has become proper to do so. But, let's NOT forget the Admin. member who deleted the post instead of taking a different action OR maybe should have asked the membership what we wanted done.

BUT, as with all things, there was a birth and thus there WILL be a death. This forum was born and it will die. Most of us hope the "end date" is far into the future. I never thought I would ever see the nation, and it's people, in this type of situation during my life. Makes me sad as I am sure it makes a lot of you feel the same.

Eric and Julie, my heart and prayers go out to you. I wish you all the Luck and Love in the world. Seems there's not as much here as there used to be.

Good Luck!!!
Terry

P.S. I expect this thread to be locked or deleted as I'm sure there will be hurt feelings and we don't want that now, do we?

I too saw the original post telling of their impending health issues.
I too believe it IS important information about a major hobby member, and therefore NOT off topic!
I looked in a couple hours later to see it was gone, and then quite dismayed that it wasn't even moved to the OT section which I would have considered offensive enough in itself!

I am sorry Chris. I am sorry Jeff. But if you cave in to the self important whiners and complainers always wanting everything THEIR way? You will drive away too many good people when they get sick and tired of being shut down for minor differences of an opinion.
And everyone else! When Chris and Jeff throw THEIR hands in the air and give it up? Who do you think will take it over?????
Remember what happened to the MTFCI forum when some well meaning wanna help types that knew NOTHING about running a computer based system tried to revamp their site!


Erik, If you see this? I am thinking of you and all your family. I have not yet called at this time largely because I am sure you have your hands full right now. Please, know thoughts, wishes, and prayers, are heading your way.

It’s the cancel culture fanatics that’s running amok on this website. Remember these folks want to be your guardian from common sense. Just remember to closely check out the party you vote for in the upcoming elections.
It’s a shame what’s starting to happen in our culture and it shows up more than you think.
These are the folks that want you to believe that 2+2 = 5 and it’s sad that there are many folks that are beginning to believe it. Just think about it.

Well, to borrow a phrase from the Mikado, here’s a pretty how dee do. Let me begin by offering a humble thank you to all who have reached out in support of Julie and I. Thoughts, prayers, and good wishes are all equally welcome.
Julie is resting fairly comfortably and is showing some improvement. Docs say medications should be giving some relief soon. I am staying close to her and away from others. We were both vaccinated months ago. As for myself, so far I am unaffected.
I find it weird to have been at the epicenter of a forum brouhaha and yet somehow managed to completely miss it. I don’t check the forum every day anymore. I have ideas about what may have happened, but I respect admin Jeff and others who keep things running here. I believe they act in the best interest of the forum.
Fordially, Erik

I will copy and paste, unedited, something I posted on the old forum in 2018. Some of it will be out of context because it is in relation to other people's previous postings. But most of it should make some sense.


"I said it before, and I'll say it again. "I like this site the way it is". That said, I will admit that I know and understand that it cannot stay this way forever.
Also, "the way it is"? It really isn't at this point. It has been hurt badly by a few individuals with personal grudges getting into name calling and ridiculous arguments over "who is more right" over a minor detail.
I hope we can get back to the way we were, without the pettiness.

Ron Mc W, I agree with you in part. The AACA site does do quite well. One thing I find quite amusing over there however, is that quite a few regular posters complain often about the problems of posting pictures! Maybe updated programs don't solve all problems after all?

I could be supportive of dividing this site, to a point. However, I really don't believe it would be as good as some might hope.
For one thing. One of the best things about this site is how quickly answers are often given to questions asked. Whether by newcomers, wanting basic information? Or regulars running into a problem they personally had not dealt with before? "What do I do about this?" Is often answered in minutes. Most other sites answers may not be given for days, if ever. This happens because people that may know the answer look in here several times most days. They do this, usually, because there are a few threads of interest that they want to see what has been said in the past couple hours.
Some people won't like the reasons for this. The two types of threads that keep the activity high on this site have generally been the discussions of old photos, and the what I call the "back porch". Many of us do think of many of the regulars on this site as "close friends" or even "family". We care about things in their lives, their health, their grandchildren.
Putting "old photos" or "back porch" into separate categories would have many of those regulars checking in there, and not seeing the "HELP, what do I do about????" under the technical category.
But that is only my opinion."

Sometimes I hate being right.


Considering that the OT section has maybe less than ten people doing more than ninety percent of the posting? And that concerns for our model T friends facing health or other serious problems have dropped to an abysmal very few?
Admin Jeff moved a bunch of old photos to get the old photos in the new gallery started? And then Adrian Whiteman and I seemed to be the only ones trying to make it work. I commented on many dozens of photos, posted by others and myself. When I went through and looked? I was almost the only one answering or asking questions , or pointing out details (THANK YOU Rich Eagle for being the other one mostly!). After awhile, I stopped checking it every day. These days, I look into it about once a month if that. Usually, nothing appropriate has happened since the previous look in. Some recent photos of restored license plates and a camera bug only wanting to discuss F-stops and light meter readings? Yeah, that works there. (The license plates DEFINITELY belonged elsewhere!)

I DO NOT want to see this forum going the way of the MTFCI forum!!!!!!

Somehow, I have managed to quite a few times catch posts in General Discussion, only to have them disappear into OT a few minutes later! You know? I cannot imagine that Chris B or Admin Jeff have nothing better to do than sit there, checking every post as it goes by to make sure it is SUPPOSED to be in the General Discussion. I cannot imagine they want in the middle of this BS either.

BE friends! Or lose the friendships.

This country is marching straight to Hell over petty divisiveness!!! THAT is a bandwagon we DO NOT want to climb onto!

Erik

I started the deleted thread because I saw your post on Facebook.
Glad Julie is not hospitalized and is improving.
Thanks for updating us on her condition.

FJ

Thank you Jim. I will keep you updated.

Prayers Erik.

I recently had covid....nasty stuff.

A bit of encouragement for Erik:

My son works as a respiratory therapist in the local hospital. You can bet Brian in one way or another deals with every covid case that comes through the door. He tells me that to date their facility has seen a number of vaccinated people with covid. The worst cases so far have been kept overnight just to monitor their status and then sent home to recover. No severe long term cases, none ever in ICU, for sure no fatalities.

Among the non-vaccinated, there have been quite a few admtted, some to ICU, and have in fact lost some people. But never one who has been vaccinated.

Now I should stipulate that this is just one hospital, not the entire country. But you may be assured that it's not a manipulated survey from somebody with an agenda; it's just real world observation.

Best wishes again to you and Julie.

Dick

Hi Eric and prayers for what your dealing with.
I have to say my Wife and I have been there and done that. I’m 73 and the wife is 70. We were waiting to get the shots back in March and I got the Covid first. Felt bad and like I had a bad cold. Not much temp. Dr said to quarantine and we both did. I got past it and I’m Ok.
About a month later my wife came down with 104+ fever and was rushed to the hospital and put directly on a ventilator for 5 days. This happened within 5hrs. She was given a 20% chance to live and to make it short and pulled through it in 4 weeks with lingering side effects but is pretty much OK. We got the shots. We have friends in our Church that had their shots and came down with Covid and spent time in the hospital but since recovered.
Our Church had a prayer chain for my wife and God had plans for her to be in this life longer than what the Drs gave her.
In the last few months since that happened and as mentioned above having the shots can help but they DO NOT guarantee you won’t come down with Covid. You probably will have a less serious case. Others we know have had the Covid twice and got over it both times and you wouldn’t know it by looking at him. He still won’t get a shot.
I felt that I could share this in the forum to give courage to others. Remember Our Lord has the final say in our lives whether we want to cancel him out or not. God bless.

I want to thank Jim for letting us know about Eric and his wife. Eric is a great guy and helped many a model T-ers. Prayers for a speedy recovery for your wife and hope and pray you don't get the crud.

jw

Thank you, Scott for reviving this non O.T. subject. I assume Jeff and/or Chris are the ones who felt the need to deleted the earlier thread. Since their action has elicited a lot of unanswered questions, perhaps they should take this opportunity to come on here and explain why they felt the need to delete a thread that did nothing, but inform the rest of us that a fellow member’s wife was very sick and could use our prayers and well wishes. I for one vote that the last thread pertained to a member of the MTFCA and, thus was not OT and should not have been deleted. I hope if I am ever deathly ill, someone will think enough of me to inform my Forum friends of my dilemma without someone causing an embarrassing stink by complaining about it and causing the harmless thread to be deleted. I am so sorry it happened to Eric and my thoughts and prayers go out to him and his wife for her fast recovery. Jim Patrick

Glad you two are doing OK Erik. Payers to be sent straightaway.
Jim P nails it for me. We respect our mods yet please explain this.

You know what really gets me about something like this? It’s the question of whether the person is actually offended or (perhaps more likely?) is just trying to fire up others. Which he/she apparently has done. Nothing wrong with the original prayer request in my not exactly religious mind.

Prayers for Erik & Julie!

I am NOT offended.

I don’t get the big offensiveness about prayers.
Aside from atheism, most every form of religion believes in some sort of prayer.

That being said.... “There are no atheists in foxholes” !

I offer prayers for the Barretts, and everyone else dealing with this virus.

Ruxstel24 wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:54 pm

I don’t get the big offensiveness about prayers.
Aside from atheism, most every form of religion believes in some sort of prayer.

That being said.... “There are no atheists in foxholes” !

I offer prayers for the Barretts, and everyone else dealing with this virus.

Atheism is a religion. A zealous one at that. Environmentalism & veganism have become a religion also

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:25 am

Ruxstel24 wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:54 pm

I don’t get the big offensiveness about prayers.
Aside from atheism, most every form of religion believes in some sort of prayer.

That being said.... “There are no atheists in foxholes” !

I offer prayers for the Barretts, and everyone else dealing with this virus.

Atheism is a religion. A zealous one at that. Environmentalism & veganism have become a religion also

Huh?

DLodge wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 16, 2021 10:48 am

Scott, I noticed its absence this morning as well. The Dutch have an expression that a friend of mine wishes we had in English. You can say of someone, "He has long toes" and a Dutch speaker knows what you mean, i.e. he is easily offended (his toes are easily stepped on). We live in a world nowadays where everyone's toes seem to be growing apace. <sigh>

There seems to be a lot of thin skin and long toes all around in this thread…

Eric

I'm with Steve Jelf. I'm an atheist (i.e. no religion or belief in a higher power whatsoever) but I see prayer requests as a way of one person doing what they think is a nice thing for another person. No harm in it and no offense taken. Now, if they demanded that we all pray to their chosen god or the like, that's a different story, but that wasn't the case as I saw it.

Model T-content: I figured out today that my low speed linkage is severely worn and may be the cause of my shifting issue. New part on order, hopefully it will be fixed soon.

Be careful. Turning this into a religious debate will get it removed again and defeat the intended purpose which was originally to express the hope that Erik’s deathly ill wife will recover. One can express hope and encouragement without prayer. Please do not allow this to drift into forbidden territory. Religious or non-religious belief is a private matter. Please keep it that way. Jim Patrick

I debated whether I should make a post on this thread or not, so here I am.

Jeff & I do our best to keep the forum under control and sometimes we make decisions that seem random to other people.

I deleted the thread for fear it was going to get into a debate about vaccination or not vaccination and wanted to nip it in the bud.

We have deleted a total of 12 threads in 2021, most of them probably nobody noticed.

Our approach is generally hands off and let the users work out their own differences – within reason.

The best part about this new thread is Erik is now aware of everybody’s concerns.

Chris

Thanks again for all the support and thanks to the guys who keep this forum running. Julie is showing some improvement although the coughing is still tearing her up. At this time she is resting fairly comfortably. We have been told this thing could take a while to get through and we continue to be appreciative of the outpouring of concern. So far I have been unaffected. I will be getting a test in a few days.
Fordially, Erik

Thank you, Chris. Great news Erik. Let’s all hope she continues on her road to recovery with your help. Good luck on your test. Jim Patrick

I'm assuming I had it back in January 2020 (no typo) and coughed bad for days. 3 nights I couldn't get any sleep due to the coughing, after the 3rd night I decided to self medicate and sucked some o2 from my torch as funny as it sounds. From then on I got better. I don't know if this may or may not help but thought I would offer.

babychadwick wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 18, 2021 3:17 pm

I'm assuming I had it back in January 2020 (no typo) and coughed bad for days. 3 nights I couldn't get any sleep due to the coughing, after the 3rd night I decided to self medicate and sucked some o2 from my torch as funny as it sounds. From then on I got better. I don't know if this may or may not help but thought I would offer.

Hope you didn't take in too much. Straight O2 can ruin your lungs. Guess you didn't overdo it. Glad you got through it.

Industrial/oxy-acetylene oxygen is risky to use unprofessionally or medically. It can be a life saver! Or it can cause a myriad severe medical problems and even excruciating death. Medicinal oxygen is however only slightly safer in the hands of the untrained (believe me, I have NO, NADA, NOT ANY training or expertise in that area!!!)! As the person people know has welding oxygen, I have been asked on a few occasions to use it medicinally. I have also done my communications systems work in a lot of hospitals, and been around professionals administering oxygen. I also have a great deal of science background. I DO know enough about it, that I could be very dangerous if I were to be reckless enough to try to use it medically. However, I also know enough about it to avoid using it that way if asked. Under extreme circumstances? I could probably use it safely. But I sure hope such circumstances never come around!

Among many other things, too much oxygen (even medicinal oxygen!) can cause scarring of the lungs, and even blindness!



Erik, I am pleased that things are generally stable and improving. Take care of Julie and the rest of the family. And don't forget to take care of yourself as well!
I hope to go by and see you soon (although with this I will drag my feet a bit longer). David Dewey also sent me an email about your situation and said he emailed you. Be well my friend!

Got covid last Christmas. Lungs and Kidneys shut down, treated fore covid, sepsis. Was in ICU for a number of days. Came out of it with severe lung problems, but still looking down at the grass. I sincerely wish them well.

John C.

"Huh"

see:
https://watermark.silverchair.com/47-4- ... 6BM5IRNp6g

maybe that answers the question

Good gxd I prxy that this is the end of this.