MTFCA Forum

Hi, the rear brake linings are on but now the wheel won't go on. The other side went on snugly and does not roll freely. This side doesn't seem to go on at all. What am I doing wrong?

Sometimes the new lining is just a bit too thick and may need grinding back a little. The side you have that does go on may be an indication that that drum is worn a bit more than the other. Additionally, the linings need the ends trimmed off closer to the last rivets. Those long ends will not be hard on the shoes and will drag on the drum. There is little engagement of the ends of the linings when the brakes are in operation, so nothing is lost by trimming them back.

Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.

Ignacio,
1a...I would rasp or course sand down the ends of the brake linings between the lining ends and the two rivets, the end of the linings are sticking out past the diameter of the steel drum.
1b...I would pull the brake rod clevis pin to allow the brake shoe cam to centralise.

2...I would put a steel split pin in the spring hanger nut so it doesn't leave home.
3...I would check that the axle grease cap is seated fully to allow the wheel will tighten on the axle taper (may be that is what's wrong with the other wheel)
Hope this helps.....n.

I had the same problem...
Chamfered the ends and sanded some off the whole shoe. Turns free but I can’t get much more than halfway on the lever. It’s getting better and I have never had a drum hot after driving.
I was going to take a small amount off the metal shoe where it rides on the cam next.

What is used to cut the ends off? A cutting wheel, metal shears??

Ruxstel24 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:19 pm

I had the same problem...
Chamfered the ends and sanded some off the whole shoe. Turns free but I can’t get much more than halfway on the lever. It’s getting better and I have never had a drum hot after driving.
I was going to take a small amount off the metal shoe where it rides on the cam next.

ivaldes1 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:40 pm

What is used to cut the ends off? A cutting wheel, metal shears??

Ruxstel24 wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:19 pm

I had the same problem...
Chamfered the ends and sanded some off the whole shoe. Turns free but I can’t get much more than halfway on the lever. It’s getting better and I have never had a drum hot after driving.
I was going to take a small amount off the metal shoe where it rides on the cam next.

I used a coarse file to taper the ends and 80 grit sandpaper on the rest
Taper down the ends from the rivet down to the end, but don’t compromise the rivet area much.

Ignacio, You have gotten good advice in above post. I use a small dramel grinder to taper the lining ends down so they don't catch the drum and loosen the lining. To speed up fitting brake linings I use a drum brake centering tool, they are not that expensive, it is like a caliper that transfers brake drum inside diameter to brake shoe outside diameter, it helps in sanding the lining. In general you want the brake lining below the backing plate outside edge slightly. You will need to sand the lining and you may need to slightly file the brake cam and shoe feet for smooth operation. When fitted you should be able to turn the wheel by hand yet the break rods should pull the brake cam enough to lock the wheel when hand brake is pulled back past vertical.

Sometimes the outside edge of the lining curles up a little starting the wheel on. You can slightly taper that edge with a file to help with starting the wheel back on if you want.

I just went thru this on my 27.....
I hope your rivets are counter-sunk deep enough into the lining.....luckily I counter sunk rivets roughly 1/3 the lining thickness. I had to remove at least 1/16 inch off the lining with a belt sander to achieve very slight drag on drum. You can cut the ends off the lining with band saw or hack saw.....bevel with belt sander or file.

From the pix, I see your shoe IS NOT ROUND.
Note the relation between the cam end & shoe end. They are squeezed in. Tight @ top & bottom.
Pull the shoe & fit inside the drum. Bend round, like you do for transmission bands.
There may be some unnecessary, excess lining @ the ends. Chamfer those edges.
Dont be to quick to grind on the lining face. Over the rivet holes to remove created burs yes.
The lining I have been getting from the vendors doesnt need to be thinned to fit.
When you get the wheel on all the way, you may need to chamfer the outer lining edges.
Your outer seal cup may not be in/on all the way.
Remove the axle key for your fitting & first draw down checking the fit. Key goes on for the final mounting.

6 people weighed in on this and nobody had the correct answer...

The reason your wheel won’t go on is because the reproduction rear shoe is made wrong and the effective circle is too large. The ends are riveted too far out on the ends of the circle. Compare it to an original brake shoe and you will see the slight difference. This has been a known issue on reproduction’26-‘27 rear shoes for a long time. If you correctly install the currently available reproduction linings on a decent original shoe there shouldn’t be a problem.

Also, the reproduction cams with the knurled shaft pressed into a hole in the cam may be a potential safety hazard. There have been pictures posted of them having failed.

I agree that the ends of the linings don't look like they are rounded with the shoes. From the second picture, it is hard to tell whether the drum has slipped on a fraction of an inch or if it is butted right against the lining. In the picture, it looks like the drum is lower than the shoe, because I can see a space between the lining and the drum, but on the top, it looks like the drum is either very thin or the edge is below the lining.

This is what I would do first 1. work on the ends of the lining to get them even with the rest of the lining, such as grinding them off. Then try on the wheel again. Be sure it fits all the way around. Lastly, if the other steps don't work, use a flat sander or a rasp and work on the surface of the lining. try to take off only the small amount it takes to get the drum to fit all the way around remembering that as you push on the wheel the taper will center the wheel on the lining.

One other thing which could be a bigger problem would be excessive wear on the wheel bearing, causing the axle to drop a fraction of an inch in the bearing. A new sleeve will sometimes fix this, or if the rollers are good, a very thin piece of shim stock around the sleeve against the housing will close up the space.
Norm

Adam wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:45 pm

6 people weighed in on this and nobody had the correct answer...

The reason your wheel won’t go on is because the reproduction rear shoe is made wrong and the effective circle is too large. The ends are riveted too far out on the ends of the circle. Compare it to an original brake shoe and you will see the slight difference. This has been a known issue on reproduction’26-‘27 rear shoes for a long time. If you correctly install the currently available reproduction linings on a decent original shoe there shouldn’t be a problem.

Also, the reproduction cams with the knurled shaft pressed into a hole in the cam may be a potential safety hazard. There have been pictures posted of them having failed.

I was not aware repo shoes are not correct. Never used them. No surprise though.
Fit inside the drum. Take into account the cam thickness. Maybe the cam contacts can be reduced?
Might require a repositioning of one contact ear.

The first photo shows the standing up edges of the new lining on the shoe.

Have used before a coping saw blade and cut the edges at an angle so they don't stand up. Think the issue is those two leading edges, as they should be flush.

Or these edges can be sanded down, a bench sander works or a bench grinder. Take care of the dust made and the brass wire contents as you grind away.

Be sure the inside of the drum surface is bare steel, no finish paint inside the drums.

Coping saw or thin scroll saw to cut the new lining.

Ignacio, Is their a reason you are using the 1925 small drum rear spring perches ? With the 1926 type large drum rear axle, particularly on a speedster that you want lower, you should use the 1926 type perches that come straight out from the backing plate. Also that type of repo spring shackle is known to come apart in service. You get what you pay for with cheap repo parts.

Did not know that. I am not finding 1926 rear spring perch on Lang's.

kmatt2 wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:03 pm

Ignacio, Is their a reason you are using the 1925 small drum rear spring perches ? With the 1926 type large drum rear axle, particularly on a speedster that you want lower, you should use the 1926 type perches that come straight out from the backing plate. Also that type of repo spring shackle is known to come apart in service. You get what you pay for with cheap repo parts.

It is on! With a combination of grinding a little off the feet, sandpapering off the overspray paint on the drum, sanding a little off of the lining and cutting off and chamfering the ends it went on. The other side I went ahead and cut off the excess with chamfer, sanded the overspray off and lightly sanded the lining and that one is good. It now rolls and stops!

Ignacio, I don't think they make repo's of the 1926 rear perch. I would bet that they have good used ones at Langs if you call them. If they don't, try calling Bob's T Parts in Loves Park Illinois. He goes by fatman on this sight and is a great guy to deal with.

Two rear 26/27 spring purchases for sale, Parts for sale , August 12....6.06am..n.

UPDATE...September 2nd and 3rd...n

I doubt that you are “finished” with this issue yet...

The proper fit isn’t just to just get the hub on. You also have to get enough slack action (undersize fit of the shoe) to allow the brake to be fully released with the handbrake lever all the way forward as well as halfway up in neutral. If the fit of the shoe is too close, your cam arm will be pushed backwards and apply the brake slightly when the hand lever is all the way forward.

Adam is correct. Wheels should turn freely with brake off. The position of the hand brake lever when all the way forward, the pins should go in without forcing or bending the rod. This can be done by adjusting the clevis either tighter or looser. When it is correct, the lever should not move when you push in the low pedal. If the lever goes backward and then the car will not run in high, the rods are adjusted too long.
Norm