Top iron - what year

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dykker5502
Posts: 410
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:01 pm
First Name: Michael
Last Name: Deichmann
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1921 Roadster P/U, 1922 Fordor (danish custom body)
Location: Rågeleje, Denmark
MTFCA Number: 29116
Board Member Since: 2007

Top iron - what year

Post by dykker5502 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:48 am

Hi,

my top irons on my roadster Pick-up are broken over - rust. It appears that there are wood inside the lover part of the irons and with some holes in the irons (missing fastners for side curtains I think) moisture and even water gets in.

Are any vendors selling new irons? I guess not as I have not been able to find them. And anyway I need to know what year my body is. It's titled as a 1921, but since I've been told that this car is build out of (at least) two cars, the body and hence the irons may be another year.
2015-09-15 13.55.13.jpg
2018-06-24 19.21.23.jpg
So once I got the year (but 1917 - 1921/22 is the same?) my option is the classified and WTB? Or eventually try to weld and reinforce?
Ford Model T 1914 Touring
Ford Model T 1921 Roadster Pick-up
Ford Model T 1922 Fordor (danish build body)
ECCT, Strobospark, HCCT(Sold), Rebuilding coils

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CudaMan
Posts: 2383
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First Name: Mark
Last Name: Strange
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Cut Off Touring (now a pickup)
Location: Hillsboro, MO
MTFCA Number: 30944
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Re: Top iron - what year

Post by CudaMan » Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:45 am

Here is a good earlier thread on roadster tops:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/82 ... 1527173870

Lang's used to list new, reproduction top bows and irons, but I don't see them on their website now. Years ago, I bought a set for my 1924 and was very pleased with them.

Snyder's site lists some top parts:

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/Prod ... irons-bows
Mark Strange
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)


speedytinc
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First Name: john
Last Name: karvaly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
Location: orange, ca
MTFCA Number: 14383
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: Top iron - what year

Post by speedytinc » Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:32 am

The bows you have are the round earlier style. Pre '18. The body is 17-22, so the rectangular profile bows would be more expected. BUT, before you plunk down the money, note this is a touring car body front half. Will a roadster top fit properly, or need some customization? I dont know that, but would not assume it would directly. Might take some comparison with a "real" roadster of similar year range.


John kuehn
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Re: Top iron - what year

Post by John kuehn » Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:46 am

On the resources section of the MFTCA there is a guy in California who supplies top bows and sockets for 09-27 T’s.
Don’t know if he’s still in business.


Erik Johnson
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Re: Top iron - what year

Post by Erik Johnson » Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:46 am

Those are actually 1918-22 square top irons/sockets, not pre-1918 as someone posted earlier.


Norman Kling
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Re: Top iron - what year

Post by Norman Kling » Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:03 am

To me, they look correct for a 1921. There is some wood in the upper part of the bow but not all the way to the pivot point. The wood is just inside the part where the top material and pads are fastened. I had one break and a neighbor brazed it back together for me. The braze will not hold paint, and shows, however the bow has not broken since then. Maybe you can work some sheet metal into the area inside the area where it broke and then braze things back together. Your work might show, but will save you a lot of money. Other used bows might have worse issues than you already have. I have been working on a 20 touring for a friend, and we had to take about 4 sets of used bows to find enough good parts to make one for the car. New ones will cost you "mucho dinero". That's much money in English.
Norm

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Topic author
dykker5502
Posts: 410
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:01 pm
First Name: Michael
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* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1921 Roadster P/U, 1922 Fordor (danish custom body)
Location: Rågeleje, Denmark
MTFCA Number: 29116
Board Member Since: 2007

Re: Top iron - what year

Post by dykker5502 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:06 am

It is indeed a front half of a touring. The guy that made it claimed as I recalls it, to be a 1919 body.
It have some numbers in the wood. I'll take some pictures and start another thread for that.
I doubt that they have made a lot of modifications when they did the car back in 1963. The guy that build it died some years ago, so I'm unable to ask :-)
Ford Model T 1914 Touring
Ford Model T 1921 Roadster Pick-up
Ford Model T 1922 Fordor (danish build body)
ECCT, Strobospark, HCCT(Sold), Rebuilding coils

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jsaylor
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* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 Touring, 1927 Tudor
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Re: Top iron - what year

Post by jsaylor » Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:06 am

Check with John. May be able to help.
John Boorinakis
545 Dairy Road
Auburn, CA 95603
Phone 530-885-4956
Fax 530-887-0863.

Top Bows and Top Sockets for Model T Fords, 1909-1927, and others.
For information please call, write, or visit our web site E-mail John
john@johns-enterprises-top-sockets-top-bows.com


speedytinc
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Location: orange, ca
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Re: Top iron - what year

Post by speedytinc » Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:14 am

A second closer look. They still look early on the right(optical dillusion?), but the middle bow does look flat (later style)

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Topic author
dykker5502
Posts: 410
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:01 pm
First Name: Michael
Last Name: Deichmann
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1921 Roadster P/U, 1922 Fordor (danish custom body)
Location: Rågeleje, Denmark
MTFCA Number: 29116
Board Member Since: 2007

Re: Top iron - what year

Post by dykker5502 » Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:57 am

I went down in the basement (my workshop) and took some more detailed pictures. The ends are rounded, but center parts are square:
Kalechestativ 001.jpg
Kalechestativ 002.jpg
Here is my temporary repair:
Kalechestativ 003.jpg
and there are other suspicious places I need to look into before breaking apart eventually:
Kalechestativ 004.jpg
Ford Model T 1914 Touring
Ford Model T 1921 Roadster Pick-up
Ford Model T 1922 Fordor (danish build body)
ECCT, Strobospark, HCCT(Sold), Rebuilding coils


Erik Johnson
Posts: 850
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Re: Top iron - what year

Post by Erik Johnson » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:22 pm

Those are definitely 1918-22.

1915 -1917 are oval all the way up. Also, the first bow pin is inserted into the second bow eyelet from the inside, and there is a key/keeper on a leather strap screwed to the bow.

1918-22 are for the most part square/rectangular. The first bow pin is inserted into the second bow eyelet from the outside, and the wire keeper slides up and down on the bow as shown in your photos.

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Oldav8tor
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Re: Top iron - what year

Post by Oldav8tor » Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:49 pm

My 1917 touring has oval bows. I fished the wood pieces out of them and poured liquid epoxy into the tubes both to prevent rust and to provide strength. You might consider something similar if your sockets are repairable.
1917 Touring
1946 Aeronca Champ
1952 Willys M38a1 Jeep (sold 2023)
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor


John kuehn
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Re: Top iron - what year

Post by John kuehn » Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:42 pm

For comparison purposes I measured the two top anchor points my on 1919 Roadster and 21 Touring. Those two cars should be pretty much like your car since they are in the same body style era.
I was thinking the two anchor point distances were the same but they are not.
I measured the diagonal distance from the windshield point to the front seat anchor point.
The distance from the two points on my 1919 Roadster is 26”.
The 21 Touring distance is 33”.

From the looks of your picture maybe the bows were altered someway from a roadster set.
Some Cutoff Tourings still used tops so they must have used did something to make them fit.


Wayne Sheldon
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Re: Top iron - what year

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:06 pm

A couple things.
Comments above about braze repairs showing. I haven't had an opportunity to really test this long-term yet? But on several braze repairs I have made over the years, I have coated the brass with plain Epoxy glue. Just a thin coat of simple clear Epoxy. The Epoxy sticks to the brass pretty well, and the paint adheres very well to the Epoxy. The one downside I notice, is the flow smoothness of the Epoxy can leave a "plastic" look to the finish. But a quick brush of medium sandpaper before painting helps with that. A good multiple coats of priming and sanding can make a really fine finish!
When I was working on, altering, repairing, and fixing, the top sockets for my 1915 runabout a year or two back, I had to 'fix' some low end rust through. That area is notorious for internal rust issues. Under the best of conditions, in normal use, water condensation and even direct rain can find it way in, and just the dampness sitting there (where the least paint ended up originally!) causes excessive rusting from the inside out. My top sockets were the wrong ones and not a matching set, altered to fit and look basically correct.
The mismatch sockets all looked solid, until I began heating and hammering on them. Then a couple of them revealed serious weakness in that critical area. One I managed to break completely off, another remained in place held by the remaining less rusty side. Both of them, I opened up the seam on the side, then brazed steel rods inside bridging the rust areas. I then filled in with a bit more brass, and closed the opened seam, brazing it back together. The finished sockets look pretty good, and should be at least as strong as they were when new.

The cutoff touring car body does complicate things for your car. The front seat dimensions are slightly different, and the body/top iron's locations are very different! However, it appears most of those issues were dealt with when the car was being restored. So, as long as things are fitting okay, you should be fine.

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