Cam gear and timing.

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AndreFordT
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Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:25 pm
First Name: Andre
Last Name: Valkenaers
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 ; 1922 ; 1915.
Location: Scherpenheuvel
MTFCA Number: 23792
MTFCI Number: 19330

Cam gear and timing.

Post by AndreFordT » Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:36 am

I was called by someone with a 1925 tudor with this story:
Since the rebuild of the engine, 5 years ago, the engine doesn't run very well. First the rebuilder said he need to run in the engine. After a few hundred miles the engine run better but have still no power. He changed the coils with good rebuilds and rebuild the carburetor, still no power. It starts and run and you can drive it but without any punch. Maybe it should be the weight of the car but he has a 1926 centerdoor that has not been rebuild and run better. The ingition was set with the two holl caliber. To start the car you need to set the ignition at about 1/3 down. To run it, you need to set the ignition all the way down.
Last year the rebuilder past away.
A few weeks ago I had the owner on the phone with his story.
As he tried a lot him self I will start over the all set up but I was wondering if during the rebuild the cam gear was set off one gear does the engine run?
Can the gear be reset with the engine in the car?
How can I easely check the gear setting?

I will keep you posted on this.

Thanks
Andre
Belgium


speedytinc
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Re: Cam gear and timing.

Post by speedytinc » Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:56 pm

Degree the cam timing to each cylinder. Could be gears or cam. Many moons ago I bought a cam that didnt have the power to pull the car up a 3' driveway incline. Must have had a grind for 4000 rpm. I reduced the valve clearance to .025" to get the timing #'s in. Ran decently. Vender eventually got it back & determined it was ground backwards. After this fiasco I was able to get Gemsa to grind me a cam to match his aluminum head. Best running T I ever had.


Jerry VanOoteghem
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Re: Cam gear and timing.

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:36 pm

AndreFordT wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:36 am
To start the car you need to set the ignition at about 1/3 down. To run it, you need to set the ignition all the way down.
Correcting that is definitely where I would begin.

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Humblej
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Re: Cam gear and timing.

Post by Humblej » Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:08 pm

Sounds as if the commutator is not set correctly for fully retarded lever and spark plug firing at or just past top dead center. Commutator needs to be set using piston position, not a gage. Start with that simple check before you get into cam gear timing.


Kerry
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Re: Cam gear and timing.

Post by Kerry » Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:28 pm

Yes the engine will run as you describe with the cam gear one tooth out, to check with out pulling to much off, the TDC of No 1 or 4 is with the crank pully pin in line with the pan horizontal. which ever piston of 1 or 4 will be compression the other will have the valves fully open and rocking. meaning if you turn the crank either way just a fraction off TDC then both valves will move at the same time.
If you can't see what's going on through the spark plug hole then take the valve over off to see. and yes the gear can be reset by removing the front case cover.
Another way is have a second engine, set both at TDC with the timers off and see if the pin that holds the roller to the cam is in the same spot on both.


Norman Kling
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Re: Cam gear and timing.

Post by Norman Kling » Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:55 pm

From your description, I would say that the problem is in ignition timing. It is the simplest thing to change and I would try that first before anything else.
A few questions would also be in order. How did the car run before the rebuild? If the car has a higher gear ratio than standard Ford, you will have less starting power especially on hills, but faster speed on level ground. A higher gear in the rear axle needs a reduction gear such as Ruckstell axle for the lower speeds.
Did they install any other changes?
There are many different timers available these days and setting the timing is not always the same as the original timer which used the "Two hole calibrator"
This is how I set the timing of the timer. First I set the pin on the front crankshaft pulley to just past straight across as viewed from the front. You might not be able to see the pin, but you can feel it. It is the pin on which the hand crank connects to crank the engine. With the pin in that position, remove the rod from the timer and with the ignition to battery move the timer counter clockwise, as viewed from the front looking toward the back of the car. The coil should just stop buzzing as you move the timer counter clockwise. Then slowly turn the hand crank and when you hear a coil start to buzz, look at the position of the pin. It should be just past the straight across position. When you get things set in that position, turn off the ignition switch and adjust the length of the rod so it fits in the timer with the timing lever on the steering column at the top and the timer in the position described above.
When doing this adjustment it doesn't make any difference which coil buzzes, because the crankshaft must be in one of two positions when the coils buzz and both positions have the pin in the position just past straight across. Now try running the car and see how it runs. For most driving conditions the car should start with the lever all the way up and idle smoothly about 1/4 way down and run in normal driving speeds about 3/4 way down and if going very fast, all the way down.
If this doesn't correct the problem, the trouble is elsewhere.
Norm

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AndreFordT
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First Name: Andre
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Location: Scherpenheuvel
MTFCA Number: 23792
MTFCI Number: 19330

Re: Cam gear and timing.

Post by AndreFordT » Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:26 am

Thanks for the answers ,

Norman, my intentions are, as you said, I will start with the basics before digging deeper in the engine.
At this time I have no idea what timer is on the engine and how the valves are timed.
This will be the first thing I will check, compression, ignition timing and valve setting.

I will keep this alive.

Andre
Belgium

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Topic author
AndreFordT
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:25 pm
First Name: Andre
Last Name: Valkenaers
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 ; 1922 ; 1915.
Location: Scherpenheuvel
MTFCA Number: 23792
MTFCI Number: 19330

Re: Cam gear and timing.

Post by AndreFordT » Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:05 am

As promise here I am back with what I found this morning.

I first did what Norman said and started with the basic first. Inspecting the ignition.
The timer was the Anderson (flapper) timer. The rod was set with the two holes timer gauge.
To start the engine the ignition lever had to be set about one inch down and than it was still hard to start the engine.
After trying to start it, I took the first plug out and turned the engine till I had the first piston nearly on TDC. Put my Timing Indicator Kit T-3171 in the plug hole and first look for TDC than I set the engine on 15° after TDC.
Disconnect the ignition rod on the timer and turned the timer till the control light just lighted up.
The difference between the rod end and the timer hole was about 5/8".
Corrected the rod lenght and tried to start it: The car started right up even by hand on battery and magnéto and was running a live. With the both lever totaly up it stays idleing smouthly. Never been possible before

After all this, I took the ignition apart for a good clean up and set new Champion plugs.
It is running great now but it is a heavy 1926 fordor. His other T is a 1922 touring and this car is faster but about 200kg lighter.
Thanks for all the sugestions

Andre
Belgium

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